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Total depravity or total inability?

C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Titus 2:11 is the elect. Paul was writing to them who had the faith of God's Elect

Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
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God's Elect are the ones who hear the Gospel being convicted of sin and seeing a need for a Savior, and believing, accepting the call.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Its Gods truth, and you are accountable for it
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BF the word of God is God's truth, calvinism came from the 4th century pagan philosophy that augustuine brought into the church.

So since your calvinism disagrees with many things in God's word it can not be God's truth but rather it is just a man-made religion.
 
D

Dave...

Active Member

“On the other hand, if God's moral judgement differs from ours so that our 'black' may be His 'white', we can mean nothing by calling Him good; for to say 'God is good', while asserting that His goodness is wholly other than ours, is really only to say 'God is we know not what'. And an utterly unknown quality in God cannot give us moral grounds for loving or obeying Him. If He is not (in our sense) 'good' we shall obey, if at all, only through fear - and should be equally ready to obey omnipotent Fiend. The doctrine of Total Depravity - when the consequence is drawn that, since we are totally depraved, our idea of good is worth simply nothing - may thus turn Christianity into a form of devil-worship.​

- The Problem of Pain, pp. 28 - 29” C.S. Lewis​

 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
The all in Jn 12:32 is the elect. Who do you say it is
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You must be reading your calvinist bible BF. There is no mention of "the elect" in Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." NKJV

Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.” BSB

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

John says "ALL" no qualifier.

You have to read your views into the text BF, in this case "elect", which seems that you do quite often.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
BF the word of God is God's truth, calvinism came from the 4th century pagan philosophy that augustuine brought into the church.

So since your calvinism disagrees with many things in God's word it can not be God's truth but rather it is just a man-made religion.
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Tulip is God's Truth and you are accountable for it.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
You must be reading your calvinist bible BF. There is no mention of "the elect" in Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." NKJV

Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.” BSB

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

John says "ALL" no qualifier.

You have to read your views into the text BF, in this case "elect", which seems that you do quite often.
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Jn 12 32 is all the elect
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Tulip is God's Truth and you are accountable for it.
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Sorry BF but you have been lied to. TULIP is anti-biblical and anyone that tells you it is God's truth is flat out lying.

I am accountable for being truthful in how I handle the word of God.

You have failed in that BF by your continued denial of His word.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Drawing is the Spiritual application of Christs atoning work unto His Sheep, so they hear His voice and follow Him
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So you deny clear scriptural text and twist it to fit your man-made religion.

Drawing is the Spiritual application of Christs atoning work and is applicable to all not just some. His death was sufficient to cover the sins of all mankind but is efficient only for those that freely trust in Him.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dave... said:
Charles Spurgeon said:

“If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate.
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Wow. No such thing as simply feeding the sheep?

This is one of the stupidest conclusions that arises out of the evangelical's 'gospel regeneration' error. The gospel is NOT the means, it's the message.

Spurgeon spoke from both sides of his mouth, often.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dave... said:
Hey Van

The point that I was making was that Spurgeon was a Calvinist, but did not believe that a person could have regeneration and still need to come to faith. The Calvinist view is more varied from the past great theologians than what people would think.

Here's a good explanation that you might appreciate.

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Yes, I agree with your video demonstrating the "T" of the TULIP is false doctrine. Same truth as I quoted from Geisler.

But I did not see where you addressed my view that the lost are able to truly repent without being enabled by prevenient grace.

I believe the action of the lost to trust in God and His Christ, might provide the basis for God having mercy upon them, if He credits their faith as righteousness.
 
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