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As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.

Dave...

Active Member
Romans 3:10-11 As it is written: "There is none righteous (does good), no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.


The immediate context. Vs. 9 "We" Paul is referring to Jews. "Them" is referring to Gentiles. Both Jew and Gentile under the same condition. This is the bigger context also.

Romans 3:10-12, quotes Psalms 14 and Isaiah 53 in general.

Romans 3:13-18 Paul quotes Psalms 14.

Romans 3:23 quotes Isaiah 53:6 and other places Isaiah 53 overall is drawn from by Paul when making his point in Romans.

It's clear that many people 'seek God' who remain lost. It's how honestly one seeks the kingdom of God that separates the ones who find it from the ones who don't. There are many who "seek" to enter and will not be able to.

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Read Psalm 14 for context to see what Paul was quoting in Romans 3.

Psalm 14:1-7 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. You shame the counsel of the poor, But the Lord is his refuge. Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.

How does one 'become corrupt' and 'turn aside' who was born that way already? Why does David say "the fool has said in his heart"? Why not 'all men have said in their heart...'? All these conditions and problems are qualified with "workers of iniquity" and basically Gentiles for the most part. This is how the Jews of that time would have understood it. It's not a Jewish problem, it's a Gentile problem.

It's clear that there is a possibility of righteousness within that same context, as God is near, or with them. "For God is with the generation of the righteous." That would be the Jews, how they seen themselves in that passage.

---------------
Interesting that Augustine interpreted " There is none who does good, No, not one" The "not one" as "except One", speaking of Jesus, which really fits the context of justification that Paul was pushing in Romans when he quoted it. Isaiah 53 and the surrounding context of Romans is clearly about that very same thing, Jesus being the justifier because he alone is righteous [by God's standards].

John Owen qualifies vs. 2-3 in chapter 3 with "all fools" from vs. 1. Practical atheists who persecute God.

Good article. Both Augustine and Owens quoted from this source.
Does Psalm 14 Apply to All of Humanity?
---------------

Romans 3:21-24 Since nobody can be justified by the works of the Law, Paul then offers the 'good news' of righteousness by faith for all those who believe.

The context is justification. Man lacks the moral ability to be righteous. To be declared righteous. To be justified by the Law. That's the way Paul was using it. Paul quotes Psalm 14 to show that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin. His main point in saying that was that the Jews and Gentiles alike are in the same spiritual predicament. Paul makes it abundantly clear in Romans 3 and beyond that it's not a Gentile problem, but a "Jew and Gentile" problem.

To sum up Paul's point, vs. 23 of chapter 3 does a nice job of it.

23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Both Jew and Gentile ....) see vs 24-31 and into chapter 4 as the flow continues, using Abraham as an example [Who was imputed with Christ's righteousness].

See how the message is consistent if we understand that what is being emphasized is that man cannot justify himself? Why? Because there is none righteous, none that does good (Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19-John 15:5).

The context is justification and the ability to do good by righteous standards and justify ones self.

So why does Paul add "There is none who seeks after God." to His quote from the OT?

It would seem to be an odd thing to say if we take it at face value since Isaiah said this.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the Lord while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. And other places Psalm 9:10, 22:46, 40:16, 1 Chronicles 28:9, Hosea 10:12, etc.

Paul adds "there is none who seeks after God" in Romans 3 for a reason when quoting Psalms, that reason is up for debate, but taking that statement literally and defining it on an island doesn't fit with the rest of Scripture. Since Psalms 14 and Isaiah 53 lays that definition on the Gentiles (Isaiah 53:4,6.). Paul was making clear that it's just as much a problem for Jews as it is for Gentiles.

Remember that even Peter said to be careful when examining Paul's letters and not to read into them any false ideas.

2 Peter 3:15-16 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Romans 3:10-11 As it is written: "There is none righteous (does good), no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.


The immediate context. Vs. 9 "We" Paul is referring to Jews. "Them" is referring to Gentiles. Both Jew and Gentile under the same condition. This is the bigger context also.

Romans 3:10-12, quotes Psalms 14 and Isaiah 53 in general.

Romans 3:13-18 Paul quotes Psalms 14.

Romans 3:23 quotes Isaiah 53:6 and other places Isaiah 53 overall is drawn from by Paul when making his point in Romans.

It's clear that many people 'seek God' who remain lost. It's how honestly one seeks the kingdom of God that separates the ones who find it from the ones who don't. There are many who "seek" to enter and will not be able to.

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Read Psalm 14 for context to see what Paul was quoting in Romans 3.

Psalm 14:1-7 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. You shame the counsel of the poor, But the Lord is his refuge. Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.

How does one 'become corrupt' and 'turn aside' who was born that way already? Why does David say "the fool has said in his heart"? Why not 'all men have said in their heart...'? All these conditions and problems are qualified with "workers of iniquity" and basically Gentiles for the most part. This is how the Jews of that time would have understood it. It's not a Jewish problem, it's a Gentile problem.

It's clear that there is a possibility of righteousness within that same context, as God is near, or with them. "For God is with the generation of the righteous." That would be the Jews, how they seen themselves in that passage.

---------------
Interesting that Augustine interpreted " There is none who does good, No, not one" The "not one" as "except One", speaking of Jesus, which really fits the context of justification that Paul was pushing in Romans when he quoted it. Isaiah 53 and the surrounding context of Romans is clearly about that very same thing, Jesus being the justifier because he alone is righteous [by God's standards].

John Owen qualifies vs. 2-3 in chapter 3 with "all fools" from vs. 1. Practical atheists who persecute God.

Good article. Both Augustine and Owens quoted from this source.
Does Psalm 14 Apply to All of Humanity?
---------------

Romans 3:21-24 Since nobody can be justified by the works of the Law, Paul then offers the 'good news' of righteousness by faith for all those who believe.

The context is justification. Man lacks the moral ability to be righteous. To be declared righteous. To be justified by the Law. That's the way Paul was using it. Paul quotes Psalm 14 to show that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin. His main point in saying that was that the Jews and Gentiles alike are in the same spiritual predicament. Paul makes it abundantly clear in Romans 3 and beyond that it's not a Gentile problem, but a "Jew and Gentile" problem.

To sum up Paul's point, vs. 23 of chapter 3 does a nice job of it.

23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Both Jew and Gentile ....) see vs 24-31 and into chapter 4 as the flow continues, using Abraham as an example [Who was imputed with Christ's righteousness].

See how the message is consistent if we understand that what is being emphasized is that man cannot justify himself? Why? Because there is none righteous, none that does good (Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19-John 15:5).

The context is justification and the ability to do good by righteous standards and justify ones self.

So why does Paul add "There is none who seeks after God." to His quote from the OT?

It would seem to be an odd thing to say if we take it at face value since Isaiah said this.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the Lord while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. And other places Psalm 9:10, 22:46, 40:16, 1 Chronicles 28:9, Hosea 10:12, etc.

Paul adds "there is none who seeks after God" in Romans 3 for a reason when quoting Psalms, that reason is up for debate, but taking that statement literally and defining it on an island doesn't fit with the rest of Scripture. Since Psalms 14 and Isaiah 53 lays that definition on the Gentiles (Isaiah 53:4,6.). Paul was making clear that it's just as much a problem for Jews as it is for Gentiles.

Remember that even Peter said to be careful when examining Paul's letters and not to read into them any false ideas.

2 Peter 3:15-16 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

I once heard a great preacher say that the most brilliant scholar who is unsaved has no more knowledge of God than a 6 years old child. He went on to say that the 6 year old most likely had more knowledge of God being that his mind is not cluttered by false beliefs as the unsaved scholar.

The unsaved are spiritually dead, and left to themselves they have no way of reaching the demand of God's righteousness. Education and scientific investigation will not bring man to God, only the Holy Spirit can reveal Him.

God must reveal God to man, He must take the first step to man, or there is no hope. Man left on his own will not and cannot seek God. It's after the fact of God the Holy Spirit revealing God the Son to man through conviction by the Gospel that man can seek after God's righteousness.
 

Dave...

Active Member
False, it was just stated none seeks after God. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth,, there is none that seeketh after God.

Bright, you have a way of shrinking down the context until your presupposed ideas can fit. I'll try it.

" There is none that understandeth,"

Therefore, Bright, you don't understand.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
" There is none that understandeth,"

That is speaking of the natural man, which is how all those of Adam's race come into this world. And the natural man is not capable of judging a spiritual man, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, as the natural man has no understanding of spiritual things.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
 

Dave...

Active Member
No what point

Bright, context. From the OP. You ignored it and took one little pc. of a verse and interpreted it on an island without any regard for that context. I gave a more extreme example, using a pc. from your pc. and interpreting it without regard for context to make a point. Context matters.
 

Dave...

Active Member
That is speaking of the natural man, which is how all those of Adam's race come into this world. And the natural man is not capable of judging a spiritual man, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, as the natural man has no understanding of spiritual things.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
The OT passage that Romans 3 was taken from defines who and what. This is the whole Psalm.

Psalm 14:1-7 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. ***They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one***. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. You shame the counsel of the poor, But the Lord is his refuge. Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.

The context is the Gentiles. The Jews probably appealed to this Psalm often to justify their beliefs that the Salvation is for the physical Israel only, and not the Gentiles. Paul is deliberately quoting this to make a point. It even tells us why they have no knowledge, because...:rolleyes:

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 I believe is speaking about the deeper truths of Scripture. These were very worldly (trusting in the worlds wisdom, not God's wisdom from the Spirit), and immature Christians (chapter 3).
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Bright, context. From the OP. You ignored it and took one little pc. of a verse and interpreted it on an island without any regard for that context. I gave a more extreme example, using a pc. from your pc. and interpreting it without regard for context to make a point. Context matters.
You lost me
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men
That's men in general, that is why Paul was inspired to write Romans 3:9,19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
 

Dave...

Active Member
That's men in general, that is why Paul was inspired to write Romans 3:9,19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:9 emphasizes that the Jewish people, despite having God's law, have not been able to keep it, just as the Gentiles, who did not have the law, are also sinners. Ultimately, it argues that no one is righteous on their own, and all are in need of salvation through faith in Jesus. None can justify themselves according to the Law regardless of their background.

The context that Paul was quoting shows the correct context.

Psalm 14:1-7 specifically vs. 1-3. Romans 3:19 is a summery statement from Romans 3:10-18. And Isaiah 59:7-8 is also quoted in Romans 3

When we receive the Holy Spirit as a result of faith, we become positionally sanctified, and begin, by being born again, to be practically sanctified. This is salvation too.

"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). That life begins with the indwelling as a result of faith, when we become one with Jesus. This is the context that we should see in Romans 3. Man cannot do that by the flesh, according to the Law, which these OT Jewish people were trying to do.
 

Dave...

Active Member
It says plainly jews and gentiles both in Rom 3:9

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Exactly, that was the point. Jews, just like Gentiles are all under sin. Justification.
 

Dave...

Active Member
Okay and why say Justification ?? You are confusing to understand, you all over the place

Justification is the context of Paul's point in Romans. Many quote that passage in Romans 3 as proof of moral inability, but the inability is about justification, not ones ability to respond to the Gospel message positively. The context of what Paul is quoting in Psalms and Isaiah says the exact opposite of the Calvinistic interpretation of that passage in Romans, as does the context of Romans 3 and the flow of Paul's point. It says that the inability was the result of sin and rejecting God, and not something that they were born with. In short, the Calvinist interpretation of that passage doesn't fit that context at all. That would be the last passage Paul would want to quote to prove mans inability to respond to the Gospel from birth, because it says the exact opposite. See the OP for that passage that Paul was quoting. That would be, however, a passage that the Jewish people of that time would reference often as they believed that they were God's people and saved by physical heritage, and Gentiles were excluded. Understanding that, read Romans 3 again and you'll see Paul combatting that false idea. In fact, it's the whole flow of Romans to confront these kinds of false notions that were engrained into Jewish thinking of that time. In chapter four and beyond, Paul even goes into Abraham and how he was justified by faith, not by the Law, not by his physical heritage. The whole flow of the letter is justification.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Justification is the context of Paul's point in Romans. Many quote that passage in Romans 3 as proof of moral inability, but the inability is about justification, not ones ability to respond to the Gospel message positively
No man naturally cannot respond to the Gospel positively in a Spiritual sense, he is dead spiritually and cannot understand it Spiritually nor hear it Spiritually.
 
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