Why should one be a Baptist instead of simply being...

[Mur]

...a faithful follower of Jesus?

I belong to no denomination. I belong to Jesus's Church, which I believe is his body of faithful followers. I believe and do my best to follow his teachings, especially those that urge us to love our Heavenly Father and one another.

In all sincerity and humility, I just want to know, what am I missing by not identifying as a Baptist aside from being excluded from certain sections of this forum?

 

[atpollard]

As a Christian (follower of Christ) you are called upon to seek fellowship with other Christians. You have an obligation, to yourself, to determine in your own mind what you believe about important Christian truths (including what truths are important). As a self-declared LUTHERAN, you would be making the statement that the things that Lutherans consider important are important to you. As a self-declared CATHOLIC, you would be making the statement that the things that Catholics consider important are important to you. As a self-declared BAPTIST, you would be making the statement that the things that Baptists consider important are important to you.

With that statement comes the right, honor and responsibility to gather with others that so identify to participate in the “one another” things which Christ commanded of his followers.

 

[Mur]

@atpollard Thank you for your thoughtful response!

 

[Mur]

Jesus told us to:
repent from sin
love God
obey God
love one another
we're also encouraged to produce good fruits.

I try to do all of that. I also believe strongly in sharing God's Word with others. I presume that Baptists strive to do the same. What more would a Baptist do or believe that I didn't mention? Thanks again.

 

[David Lamb]

Jesus told us to:
repent from sin
love God
obey God
love one another
we're also encouraged to produce good fruits.

I try to do all of that. I also believe strongly in sharing God's Word with others. I presume that Baptists strive to do the same. What more would a Baptist do or believe that I didn't mention? Thanks again.

They meet together to worship God. They baptise people who have come to believe in Jesus Christ. They seek to make the gospel known to others, as you say you do. There are other Baptist distinctives such as the church being separate from the state.

 

[Mur]

They meet together to worship God. They baptise people who have come to believe in Jesus Christ. They seek to make the gospel known to others, as you say you do. There are other Baptist distinctives such as the church being separate from the state.

I believe in all of that too.

 

[David Lamb]

I believe in all of that too.

So what is it that Baptists believe or do that prevents you from being one?

 

[Mur]

So what is it that Baptists believe or do that prevents you from being one?

I guess that's sort of my point, but in reverse. Why do Baptists identify as such rather than just calling themselves followers of Jesus, as I and others do? We don't belong to a man-made organization; we belong to Jesus's Church, which is his body of faithful followers.

I understand why Catholics call themselves that but their beliefs and doctrines often don't align with the word of God. But in the case of Baptists and a non-denominational such as myself, I don't discern any doctrinal difference. Essentially, I suspect, you and I are both roses, but of other names.

 

[David Lamb]

I guess that's sort of my point, but in reverse. Why do Baptists identify as such rather than just calling themselves followers of Jesus, as I and others do? We don't belong to a man-made organization; we belong to Jesus's Church, which is his body of faithful followers.

I understand why Catholics call themselves that but their beliefs and doctrines often don't align with the word of God. But in the case of Baptists and a non-denominational such as myself, I don't discern any doctrinal difference. Essentially, I suspect, you and I are both roses, but of other names.

Probably because there are plenty of people, some being true Christians, who don't believe what Baptists believe. Many believe that baptism is not for believers, but can be performed on little babies. Many, like the Anglicans, believe that Church and state are formally linked. And so I could go on.

 

[Mur]

Probably because there are plenty of people, some being true Christians, who don't believe what Baptists believe. Many believe that baptism is not for believers, but can be performed on little babies. Many, like the Anglicans, believe that Church and state are formally linked. And so I could go on.

My response to them would be to show me in the Bible.

After rejecting Catholicism 9 years ago I began studying the Bible and listening to countless preachers and I just went where the Bible took me and still do.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[atpollard]

Allow me a moment to discuss the DIFFERENCES and you can decide if any of them matter to YOU [You have no reason to tell me your response, this is just information for you to consider for yourself].

CATHOLICS believe that God has placed "Sacred Tradition" into the hands of men and passed the responsibility for maintaining that Tradition to men living today through "Apostolic Succession". This makes "Sacred Tradition" equal in authority to the Bible. One is the written word of God and one is the spoken word of God ... both preserved BY and FOR the Church by anointed men who are the final authority on the meaning of the Word (written and spoken) of God.
LUTHERANS (and all Protestants) broke from this tradition to adopt an understanding that only the WRITTEN WORD of God holds the complete authority of God. "Sacred Traditions" are, ultimately, the traditions of men and must be tested against the Written Word of God (and rejected if found to contradict Scripture).

Is this a difference that matters to you?​

LUTHERANS and PRESBYTERIANS believe in a concept called Paedo-Baptism ... The gist is that God saves individuals, but calls entire HOUSEHOLDS (families) into a Covenant relationship with Himself. I cannot speak with detail about LUTHERANS, but I know for certain that PRESBYTERIANS view the New Covenant as being like the Old Covenant in that children are born into the covenant. Just as the infant born to a Jewish Mother and Father is part of the Jewish "Chosen People" (thus the male babies are circumcised), so a baby born to a Christian Man and Woman is part of the Church and is "baptized".
BAPTISTS believe in a concept called Credo-Baptism. As "Paedo" means "Family", so "Credo" means "I Believe". Baptists believe that God saves INDIVIDUALS (God has no "grandchildren"), and the command in scripture is for BELIEVERS to be Baptized. So Baptists "baptize" those old enough to make a personal profession of faith into the Church.

Is this a difference that matters to you?​

On the subject of BAPTIST vs NON-DENOMINATIONAL, there are certain "Baptist Distictives" (which are simple, core common beliefs that distinguish a Baptist Church from any other church). Are you familiar with the Baptist Distictives?

Here they are with an Acrostic [B.A.P.T.I.S.T.S.] to help remember them:

1. Biblical Authority
The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture’s inherent authority. (
2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20-21)

2. Autonomy of the Local Church
The local church is an independent body accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church. All human authority for governing the local church resides within the local church itself. Thus the church is autonomous, or self-governing. No religious hierarchy outside the local church may dictate a church’s beliefs or practices. Autonomy does not mean isolation. A Baptist church may fellowship with other churches around mutual interests and in an associational tie, but a Baptist church cannot be a “member” of any other body. (
Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23)

3. Priesthood of the Believer
“Priest” is defined as “one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion, especially as a mediatory agent between humans and God.” Every believer today is a priest of God and may enter into His presence in prayer directly through our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ. No other mediator is needed between God and people. As priests, we can study God’s Word, pray for others, and offer spiritual worship to God. We all have equal access to God–whether we are a preacher or not. (
1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 5:9-10)

4. Two Ordinances
The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord’s Supper, or communion, commemorating His death for our sins.
 (Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32)

5. Individual Soul Liberty
Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. Baptists have always opposed religious persecution. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself.
 (Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9)

6. Saved, Baptized Church Membership
Local church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer’s baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
 (Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3)

7. Two Offices
The Bible mandates only two offices in the church: elder and deacon. The three terms—”pastor”, “elder”, and “bishop/overseer”—all refer to the same office. The two offices of elder and deacon exist within the local church, not as a hierarchy outside or over the local church. (
1 Timothy 3:1-13; Acts 20:17-38; Philippians 1:1)

8. Separation of Church and State
God established both the church and the civil government, and He gave each its own distinct sphere of operation. The government’s purposes are outlined in Romans 13:1-7 and the church’s purposes in Matthew 28:19-20. Neither should control the other, nor should there be an alliance between the two. Christians in a free society can properly influence government toward righteousness, which is not the same as a denomination or group of churches controlling the government.
 (Matthew 22:15-22; Acts 15:17-29)

The "distictives" that would likely separate a BAPTIST from another Non-Denominational Church (like EVANGELICAL FREE or CALVARY CHAPEL) are (2) Autonomy, (5) Individual Soul Liberty [aka. the RIGHT to disagree], and (7) Two Offices [a different church organizational structure].
Baptists believe these things because Baptists believe that they are what the Bible calls us to. Other denominations and Non-Denominational Churches interpret the Bible to call them to something different.

Only YOU can decide what YOU see scripture calling YOU to.​

(I chose to embrace the Baptist Distinctives as good suggestions).

"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity"​

 

[Mur]

Every believer today is a priest of God...

Verse please?

 

[Mur]

5. Individual Soul Liberty
Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm.

In other words, no two Baptists necessarily agree on every secondary doctrine and it's not something for which one would be excommunicated, correct? This makes sense to me.

 

[atpollard]

Verse please?

1 Peter 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame." 7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," 8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

 

[Mur]

8. Separation of Church and State

I am an absolute believer in this!

 

[Mur]

@atpollard , my brother, thank you! That is an enlightening post! I think I'm in agreement with all of it although I do have some questions about #6, but that can wait for the time being.

 

[Mur]

1 Peter 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame." 7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," 8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Awesome! Thank you!

I love it when statements are backed by scripture! So I'm a priest!

 

[Mur]

6. Saved, Baptized Church Membership
Local church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer’s baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
 (Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3)

On to my question. For example purposes only, would an unrepentant person who revels in a blatantly sinful lifestyle be permitted to attend church? If so, would they also be welcomed at the church picnic after the service?

 

[atpollard]

In other words, no two Baptists necessarily agree on every secondary doctrine and it's not something for which one would be excommunicated, correct? This makes sense to me.

Absolutely.

At its core, the idea is EVERY person answers to their CREATOR ... like David said "LORD, against you alone have I sinned" (when he had a man killed and stole his wife). The correct response to sin is to point men to the word of God, then it is a matter of their conscience and the Holy Spirit.

The only "excommunication" would be the case given in scripture where someone does something that scripture clearly forbids and the Church is called to break fellowship "have nothing to do with such a person" (like the wolves in sheep clothes that devour widows) ... which says nothing about their eternity, just that the Church (local assembly) does not allow people to attend for the purpose of disrupting the worship and mocking the word of God.

The perfect example is the debate between Particular Baptists (Jesus died to effectively save "particular/specific" individuals) and General Baptists (Jesus died to offer salvation to the "whole world" and only those that believe will receive it). In most Denominational Churches, any specific "local Church" would be one or the other and they would split over the issue. In most Baptist Churches, Individual Soul Liberty means that everyone has the right to believe whichever position they think is right, so most Baptist Local Churches are a mix of both Particular and General Baptists (worshiping and discussing scripture together).

 

[atpollard]

On to my question. For example purposes only, would an unrepentant person who revels in a blatantly sinful lifestyle be permitted to attend church? If so, would they also be welcomed at the church picnic after the service?

The answer falls under #2 (Local Autonomy). Each local body of believers is responsible to Jesus directly. There is no "Bishop" or "Cardinal" to create a unified set of rules or to step in. There is Jesus, His Holy Spirit, the Elders and Deacons (Local Leaders). That makes every local Baptist Church unique.

At one extreme, there is probably a church that would ride him out of town on a rail.
At the other extreme, there might be a church that would try to love him back into the fold.
Most churches that I have attended tend to be "working people" that take a practical approach.
[Bible says to talk with him, then take a few fellas to talk with him, then have the whole Church talk with him before you show him the door.]

Matthew 18:15-17 [NLT]
"If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."