Why should one be a Baptist instead of simply being...

[Mur]

Absolutely.

At its core, the idea is EVERY person answers to their CREATOR ... like David said "LORD, against you alone have I sinned" (when he had a man killed and stole his wife). The correct response to sin is to point men to the word of God, then it is a matter of their conscience and the Holy Spirit.

The only "excommunication" would be the case given in scripture where someone does something that scripture clearly forbids and the Church is called to break fellowship "have nothing to do with such a person" (like the wolves in sheep clothes that devour widows) ... which says nothing about their eternity, just that the Church (local assembly) does not allow people to attend for the purpose of disrupting the worship and mocking the word of God.

The perfect example is the debate between Particular Baptists (Jesus died to effectively save "particular/specific" individuals) and General Baptists (Jesus died to offer salvation to the "whole world" and only those that believe will receive it). In most Denominational Churches, any particular "local Church" would be one or the other and they would split over the issue. In most Baptist Churches, Individual Soul Liberty means that everyone has the right to believe whichever position they think is right, so most Baptist Local Churches are a mix of both Particular and General Baptists (worshiping and discussing scripture together).

I believe that Jesus will succeed at uniting ALL THINGS to himself. In other words, I believe that ALL who ever existed will be in God's Kingdom. Is a Baptist permitted to hold this doctrine?

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

 

[Mur]

The answer falls under #2 (Local Autonomy). Each local body of believers is responsible to Jesus directly. There is no "Bishop" or "cardinal" to create a unified set of rules or to step in. There is Jesus, His Holy Spirit, the Elders and Deacons (Local Leaders). That makes every local Baptist Church unique.

At one extreme, there is probably a church that would ride him out of town on a rail.
At the other extreme, there might be a church that would try to love him back into the fold.
Most churches that I have attended tend to be "working people" that take a practical approach.
[Bible says to talk with him, then take a few fellas to talk with him, then have the whole Church talk with him before you show him the door.]

Matthew 18:15-17 [NLT]
"If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."

You're spot-on, scripturally, brother! It all makes perfect sense to me, thanks to our Father for granting me vision.

 

[Mur]

I was baptized as an infant in a Catholic Church. I left Catholicism 9 years ago, but it was only 2 years ago that I gave up drinking, smoking, and marijuana. I'm 59. Anyway, I've visited several churches to inquire about being baptized but upon arriving I always chose not to discuss it with them. None of the three were Baptist churches, by the way. I was turned off by their baptism spectacles wherein the people being baptized were asked to wear the church shirt and they'd have bands, balloons, and crowds of people cheering. I don't want to be a part of such a circus. I believe it's a VERY solemn event and I want it to be holy and dignified. Although I don't believe that my baptism is necessary for salvation, it is nevertheless something that I want to do. I live in Mexico with my Mexican wife. We moved here to help her elderly, ailing, parents. Anyway, I understand that there is a Baptist church in this small town of 20,000 people. I will contact them to see if they are willing to baptized me and to learn about the ceremony.

 

[atpollard]

I was baptized as an infant in a Catholic Church. I left Catholicism 9 years ago, but it was only 2 years ago that I gave up drinking, smoking, and marijuana. I'm 59. Anyway, I've visited several churches to inquire about being baptized but upon arriving I always chose not to discuss it with them. None of the three were Baptist churches, by the way. I was turned off by their baptism spectacles wherein the people being baptized were asked to wear the church shirt and they'd have bands, balloons, and crowds of people cheering. I don't want to be a part of such a circus. I believe it's a VERY solemn event and I want it to be holy and dignified. Although I don't believe that my baptism is necessary for salvation, it is nevertheless something that I want to do. I live in Mexico with my Mexican wife. We moved here to help her elderly, ailing, parents. Anyway, I understand that there is a Baptist church in this small town of 20,000 people. I will contact them to see if they are willing to baptized me and to learn about the ceremony.

Haha.

I can so relate. I was infant baptized in a Lutheran Church by an Atheist Father who just wanted the Grandparents to stop nagging and fighting over Catholic vs Methodist. Then I grew up atheist, was found by Jesus outside of any church and was transformed.

A decade later, I was sitting in a little church watching someone get adult-baptized and I casually mentioned to the Elder sitting next to me that because of the unusual circumstances of my conversion, I was never actually "baptized" as a believer - [I think he almost fell off his chair.] Personally, I thought that the fact that I no longer set my enemies on fire was a pretty strong indication of a changed heart ... even without "baptism". The Pastor had a talk with me and I explained that I did not hear the gospel in a church, so I had no opportunity to be baptized.

Thus I "repented", was transformed by the Holy Spirit (that order might be backwards) ... and was baptized a decade later as an act of obedience.
I can relate to "no circus", but you should have witnesses ... "Baptism" is personal, but it is also about making a PUBLIC statement that we stand with Him. We die with Him. We live again with Him. We want EVERYONE to know it!

 

[Mur]

Haha.

I can so relate. I was infant baptized in a Lutheran Church by an Atheist Father who just wanted the Grandparents to stop nagging and fighting over Catholic vs Methodist. Then I grew up atheist, was found by Jesus outside of any church and was transformed.

A decade later, I was sitting in a little church watching someone get adult-baptized and I casually mentioned to the Elder sitting next to me that because of the unusual circumstances of my conversion, I was never actually "baptized" as a believer - [I think he almost fell off his chair.] Personally, I thought that the fact that I no longer set my enemies on fire was a pretty strong indication of a changed heart ... even without "baptism". The Pastor had a talk with me and I explained that I did not hear the gospel in a church, so I had no opportunity to be baptized.

Thus I "repented", was transformed by the Holy Spirit (that order might be backwards) ... and was baptized a decade later as an act of obedience.
I can relate to "no circus", but you should have witnesses ... "Baptism" is personal, but it is also about making a PUBLIC statement that we stand with Him. We die with Him. We live again with Him. We want EVERYONE to know it!

Very interesting! Have you shared in this forum the details of how the Holy Spirit revealed God to you? I'd love to read it!

I'll share mine with you. Actually, I suppose there's not much to say. I guess I just always believed, perhaps because I was raised in a Catholic home and went to Catholic schools. I don't really know exactly why, but I've always believed. However, although I believed in Jesus, I certainly didn't live the life of a faithful follower. I reveled in sin, albeit nothing that would make the 6 PM news, thankfully.

It was actually Pope Francis that compelled me to dig deeper into the word of God. Francis' ongoing political activism seemed to me to be in contradiction as the "Vicar of Christ". Jesus never engaged in worldly or even local politics so (I asked myself) why was the Pope doing so? And the rest is history.

 

[Mur]

"Baptism" is personal, but it is also about making a PUBLIC statement that we stand with Him. We die with Him. We live again with Him. We want EVERYONE to know it!

I'm in full agreement and absolutely live that way. I share God's words as often as possible without pushing people away. I just don't want my baptism to be the center of some church's marketing campaign. Lol!

 

[Zaatar71]

...a faithful follower of Jesus?

I belong to no denomination. I belong to Jesus's Church, which I believe is his body of faithful followers. I believe and do my best to follow his teachings, especially those that urge us to love our Heavenly Father and one another.

In all sincerity and humility, I just want to know, what am I missing by not identifying as a Baptist aside from being excluded from certain sections of this forum?

You should do what you think to do, until you know to do otherwise.
That means as time permits, look into why Baptists believe what they do, and why.
The same for, why Presbyterians see it slightly different, and why. Once you survey the theological landscape you have a better perspective on why you should otr should not believe whatever you do.

 

[Mur]

You should do what you think to do, until you know to do otherwise.
That means as time permits, look into why Baptists believe what they do, and why.
The same for, why Presbyterians see it slightly different, and why. Once you survey the theological landscape you have a better perspective on why you should otr should not believe whatever you do.

Thanks. I really like the Baptist perspective, although I do believe that Jesus will succeed at uniting ALL THINGS to him whereas I presume most Baptists and other Christians vehemently disagree with that belief.

 

[JesusFan]

Thanks. I really like the Baptist perspective, although I do believe that Jesus will succeed at uniting ALL THINGS to him whereas I presume most Baptists and other Christians vehemently disagree with that belief.

That happens at the time of the Second Coming, as all of us then shall indeed have "correct theology in full"

 

[Walter]

I guess that's sort of my point, but in reverse. Why do Baptists identify as such rather than just calling themselves followers of Jesus, as I and others do? We don't belong to a man-made organization; we belong to Jesus's Church, which is his body of faithful followers.

I understand why Catholics call themselves that but their beliefs and doctrines often don't align with the word of God. But in the case of Baptists and a non-denominational such as myself, I don't discern any doctrinal difference. Essentially, I suspect, you and I are both roses, but of other names.

Wouldn't you say your being a universalist is a pretty big doctrinal difference?

Well, let me take that back. There are plenty of American Baptist, United Church of Christ, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian and Disciples of Christ churches that accept universalism. But many of them question Christ Divinity, the virgin birth, physical resurrection of Jesus, the Bible, etc.

Probably the majority of Baptist on this board believe not all humanity will be saved. I know, as you do, the Catholic Church certainly doesn't.

However, just how far one can stretch 'Soul Liberty' can best be answered by the Baptist on this board. I'm wondering if you were to state to the leadership of the Baptists churches most of the board members here that you were a universalism whether they would consider you for baptism/membership? Again, better answers will come from someone other than myself.

 

[Mur]

Wouldn't you say your being a universalist is a pretty big doctrinal difference?

Well, let me take that back. There are plenty of American Baptist, United Church of Christ, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian and Disciples of Christ churches that accept universalism. But many of them question Christ Divinity, the virgin birth, physical resurrection of Jesus, the Bible, etc.

Probably the majority of Baptist on this board believe not all humanity will be saved. I know, as you do, the Catholic Church certainly doesn't.

However, just how far one can stretch 'Soul Liberty' can best be answered by the Baptist on this board. I'm wondering if you were to state to the leadership of the Baptists churches most of the board members here that you were a universalism whether they would consider you for baptism/membership? Again, better answers will come from someone other than myself.

Based on the explanation I received it's possible that a Baptist Church could deny my membership for having the belief that Jesus will succeed in uniting all things to himself.

 

[Zaatar71]

Thanks. I really like the Baptist perspective, although I do believe that Jesus will succeed at uniting ALL THINGS to him whereas I presume most Baptists and other Christians vehemently disagree with that belief.

You are correct in this. The living hope all believers have is the eternal state as Glorified and perfected saints, we will have the unity that eludes us now in the present.

 

[Walter]

Based on the explanation I received it's possible that a Baptist Church could deny my membership for having the belief that Jesus will succeed in uniting all things to himself.

Actually highly probable other than those churches I listed in my above post.

I understand what you are saying, I am not sure everyone responding to your posts on this and other threads realize you are a universalist.

 

[Mur]

Actually highly probable other than those churches I listed in my above post.

I understand what you are saying, I am not sure everyone responding to your is posts on this and other threads realize you are a universalist.

I just go by the word of God.

Isaiah 52:10

The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.



Titus 2:11

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



Luke 19:10 ESV

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”



1 John 4:14

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.



Lamentations 3:31

For the Lord will not cast off forever



Romans 5:18

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.



1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.



Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”



Revelation 21:5

And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”



2 Corinthians 5:19

that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



John 6:51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”



2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.



Colossians 1:20

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



John 3:17

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.



Luke 3:6

and all flesh shall see the salvation of God



Philippians 2:10-11

so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Romans 10:9

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



2 Samuel 14:14

We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.



Ephesians 1:10

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.



John 1:29

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"



1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Zaatar71]

I just go by the word of God.

Isaiah 52:10

The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.



Titus 2:11

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



Luke 19:10 ESV

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”



1 John 4:14

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.



Lamentations 3:31

For the Lord will not cast off forever



Romans 5:18

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.



1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.



Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”



Revelation 21:5

And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”



2 Corinthians 5:19

that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



John 6:51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”



2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.



Colossians 1:20

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



John 3:17

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.



Luke 3:6

and all flesh shall see the salvation of God



Philippians 2:10-11

so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Romans 10:9

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



2 Samuel 14:14

We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.



Ephesians 1:10

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.



John 1:29

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"



1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Your list of verses need to be examined more closely.
Offers of these things in these verses can go wherever these truths are preached. The scope of the offer is worldwide.

The benefits of what are offered in these verses are only to believers however.

 

[Walter]

I just go by the word of God.

Isaiah 52:10

The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.



Titus 2:11

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



Luke 19:10 ESV

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”



1 John 4:14

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.



Lamentations 3:31

For the Lord will not cast off forever



Romans 5:18

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.



1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.



Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”



Revelation 21:5

And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”



2 Corinthians 5:19

that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



John 6:51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”



2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.



Colossians 1:20

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



John 3:17

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.



Luke 3:6

and all flesh shall see the salvation of God



Philippians 2:10-11

so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Romans 10:9

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



2 Samuel 14:14

We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.



Ephesians 1:10

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.



John 1:29

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"



1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

You believe you are now a 'Bible believer'. The problem is that you hold to a belief that is sharply at odds with conservative evangelicalism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy To my knowledge, there's no such thing as a 'Bible believing' universalist church. Universalists identifying as Christians believe the Bible is historically incorrect and not that relevant to the 21st century. At least that's been my observation.

 

[Zaatar71]

You believe you are now a 'Bible believer'. The problem is that you hold to a belief that is sharply at odds with conservative evangelicalism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy To my knowledge, there's no such thing as a 'Bible believing' universalist church. Universalists identifying as Christians believe the Bible is historically incorrect and not that relevant to the 21st century. At least that's been my observation since I was a student at California Baptist University.

I might be inclined to agree with your view here Walter!

 

[JesusFan]

Your list of verses need to be examined more closely.
Offers of these things in these verses can go wherever these truths are preached. The scope of the offer is worldwide.

The benefits of what are offered in these verses are only to believers however.

• Jude 1:14-15: This New Testament book directly prophesies this event, quoting the ancient patriarch Enoch: "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds".
• Does not seem to be offering hope to the unsaved there

 

[atpollard]

• Jude 1:14-15: This New Testament book directly prophesies this event, quoting the ancient patriarch Enoch: "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds".
• Does not seem to be offering hope to the unsaved there

Let us discuss this in terms of BAPTIST "Individual Soul Liberty" (as this IS a Baptist site and Mur is asking about acceptance of his belief (universal salvation) under "Individual Soul Liberty".

[I was originally not inclined to wade into these waters, but what the heck ...]

First the GOOD NEWS:
Soul Liberty means that Mur answers to God for his soul and not to me or any man. That is a point that Baptists have literally DIED for. So as I Baptist, I acknowledge Mur's right to hold his belief [and that is EXACTLY why we do not need a State Church or a Church Hierarchy compelling people to adopt "official approved beliefs".

Now for the BAD NEWS:
Mur is responsible to answer to God and the BIBLE is His "norma normans non normata" (the "rule of rules that, itself, answers to no higher rule"). That means that the verses that Mur has chosen to emphasize, do not releive Mur of his obligation to answewr to God for all of the BIBLE references to HELL and DAMNATION and ETERNAL TORMENT that directly contradict his personal belief.

For any specific Baptist Church (local gathering of believers) it is for them to decide whether this is a "non essential" that Mur has the liberty to hold his opinion, or an error that they would hope and pray that he grows out of (which is the job of the Holy Spirit to educate us to truth), or an "essential error" that would prevent them from welcoming him in fellowship. Since none here attent THAT LOCAL CHURCH, it is not a matter for us to have other than a "non-binding" opinion on.

Romans 14:4 [NLT]
Who are [we] to condemn someone else's servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord's help, they will stand and receive his approval.

 

[atpollard]

I just go by the word of God.

Isaiah 52:10

The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.



Titus 2:11

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



Luke 19:10 ESV

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”



1 John 4:14

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.



Lamentations 3:31

For the Lord will not cast off forever



Romans 5:18

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.



1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.



Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”



Revelation 21:5

And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”



2 Corinthians 5:19

that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



John 6:51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”



2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.



Colossians 1:20

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



John 3:17

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.



Luke 3:6

and all flesh shall see the salvation of God



Philippians 2:10-11

so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Romans 10:9

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



2 Samuel 14:14

We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.



Ephesians 1:10

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.



John 1:29

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"



1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

If you really want to discuss UNIVERSALISM (everyone will be saved eventually), then you should probably start a topic for that with these verses posted and then they can be discussed one at a time in context (plus contrary verses).

This topic seemed to be about something else and I don't know if you really want to open that can of worms here.