What can you tell us about Jesus's forever torture chamber?

[JonC]

What can I tell you about Jesus' forever torture chamber?

That it is not a torture chamber. The punishment is giving the wicked what they have asked for - to be cast out.

It is the absence of God that makes the Lake of Fire punishment. This is why it is called "casting out", "the outter darkness", etc.

Did you think Jesus would be torturing people in Hell???

 

[Mur]

Yes but hell is a state. So although Earth is created by God, there are hellish states that are created by man, and blissful states created by man also.
God does not create the hellish state, Man and demons do.

Although God created our souls, our sin destroys the state of our soul.

So the Kingdom of God can be within you, but so can the kingdom Hell.

I'm just going by what the Bible says "...ALL THINGS were made through him".

 

[Mur]

This is where people slide into gross error because of wrong definitions.

Jesus ‘redeemed’ all men by his death on the Cross.

Jesus paid for everyone’s first class tickets to eternal salvation, but you have claim the gold boarding pass at front desk and be put on the passenger manifest by name in the book of life.

Jesus will not save you against your will, He won’t force you onto the plane. He is not into rendition.

Even though Jesus generously paid for everyones first class tickets for flights and accomodation, servants, food, cigars, open bar, and Lū’au. Something none of us could afford, people reject the offer, don’t show up redeem the tickets for the boarding pass.

There are only volunteers for Heaven or Hell.

“I've set life and death before you today: both blessings and curses. Choose life”
Deut 30:19.

Yes, all must follow Jesus to enter Heaven. Jesus described himself as the "Good Shepherd" and that he will look for the lost until he finds them.

The theology that Jesus gives up on them and then leaves them in a forever Hell is not from Jesus nor the apostles.

 

[Mur]

What can I tell you about Jesus' forever torture chamber?

That it is not a torture chamber. The punishment is giving the wicked what they have asked for - to be cast out.

It is the absence of God that makes the Lake of Fire punishment. This is why it is called "casting out", "the outter darkness", etc.

Did you think Jesus would be torturing people in Hell???

During slavery in the U.S., slave owners often placed disobedient slaves into hot boxes where they lingered for a period of time. Is it your theology that Jesus essentially does the same to the lost and leaves them there FOREVER?

Another question: will Jesus succeed in reconciling ALL THINGS to himself?

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

 

[Charlie24]

During slavery in the U.S., slave owners often placed disobedient slaves into hot boxes where they lingered for a period of time. Is it your theology that Jesus essentially does the same to the lost and leaves them there FOREVER?

Another question: will Jesus succeed in reconciling ALL THINGS to himself?

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

What it means is that all God created will be restored to the way it was before man fell, both on earth and in Heaven, according to His Plan in Jesus Christ.

In vs. 11, Christ has obtained an inheritance for us, being predestined according to His purpose/ His Plan. Everything is according to His plan before the foundation of the world.

So why do you have to make it something it's not?

 

[JonC]

During slavery in the U.S., slave owners often placed disobedient slaves into hot boxes where they lingered for a period of time. Is it your theology that Jesus essentially does the same to the lost and leaves them there FOREVER?

Another question: will Jesus succeed in reconciling ALL THINGS to himself?

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

To the first question - yes, I believe that those "cast out" will be cast out forever. I do not believe this is intended to reform the wicked but instead the fate of the wicked because they are not "of the Spirit".

Kinda like....if you remove cancer, are you really saying you want it removed forever? The answer is "yes", because cancer dies not belong in a healthy body.

The answer to your second question is also "yes". All things will be reconciled to Christ.

Does this mean Christ will take evil into Himself? No. This is reconciled by "casting out" evil. The result is all things are reconciled to Christ.

Take the cancer example. Removing the cancer is reconciling the body to the standard of health.

 

[Cathode]

Yes, all must follow Jesus to enter Heaven. Jesus described himself as the "Good Shepherd" and that he will look for the lost until he finds them.

Yes, in this life, God will constantly appeal to souls, we are given this life to decide, this is the boundary set by the Father in His wisdom.

The theology that Jesus gives up on them and then leaves them in a forever Hell is not from Jesus nor the apostles.

No. They give up on Him.

Man is given free will, and he chooses or rejects God.

The time of choosing is here in this life. The Father has set the boundary to this life for all to make their choice.

The Cup set before Jesus in the garden was that despite all the sufferings He was about to undergo, people would still refuse Him and reject His Mercy and be lost.
This was the bitter cup Jesus had to drink in obedience to The Father.

Jesus in His great Love recoiled and did not want drink this cup, wanting all to be saved.
But The Father ordained that man should have free will, that this creature made in His image and likeness would be free to choose or reject its Creator.

He does not want slaves or automatons, but sons and daughters that freely love and choose Him.

Do not deceive people anymore with this false teaching of universal salvation, if someone is lost by it, you will have answer for it, whether you believe it or not.

 

[Mur]

To the first question - yes, I believe that those "cast out" will be cast out forever. I do not believe this is intended to reform the wicked but instead the fate of the wicked because they are not "of the Spirit".

Kinda like....if you remove cancer, are you really saying you want it removed forever? The answer is "yes", because cancer dies not belong in a healthy body.

The answer to your second question is also "yes". All things will be reconciled to Christ.

Does this mean Christ will take evil into Himself? No. This is reconciled by "casting out" evil. The result is all things are reconciled to Christ.

Take the cancer example. Removing the cancer is reconciling the body to the standard of health.

My brother, below is a contemporary definition for "reconcile". Jesus will "reconcile" ALL THINGS. That means that there will be unity and harmony with ALL of God's creation. The wicked will repent and follow Jesus.

rec·on·cile
/ˈrekənˌsīl/
verb
restore friendly relations between.
"she wanted to be reconciled with her father"
cause to coexist in harmony; make or show to be compatible.
"a landscape in which inner and outer vision were reconciled"

More scripture regarding reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Mur]

we are given this life to decide

Where does the Bible say that Jesus can't or won't love and save people after they die? It doesn't. It's another false doctrine that is endemic in mainstream Christianity.

 

[Mur]

Yes, in this life, God will constantly appeal to souls, we are given this life to decide, this is the boundary set by the Father in His wisdom.



No. They give up on Him.

Man is given free will, and he chooses or rejects God.

The time of choosing is here in this life. The Father has set the boundary to this life for all to make their choice.

The Cup set before Jesus in the garden was that despite all the sufferings He was about to undergo, people would still refuse Him and reject His Mercy and be lost.
This was the bitter cup Jesus had to drink in obedience to The Father.

Jesus in His great Love recoiled and did not want drink this cup, wanting all to be saved.
But The Father ordained that man should have free will, that this creature made in His image and likeness would be free to choose or reject its Creator.

He does not want slaves or automatons, but sons and daughters that freely love and choose Him.

Do not deceive people anymore with this false teaching of universal salvation, if someone is lost by it, you will have answer for it, whether you believe it or not.

Lots of words but no scriptures.

Jesus NEVER gives up on the lost and he WILL succeed in his mission to save ALL!

Luke 19:10
English Standard Version
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Do you believe that Jesus can and will succeed in saving the lost?

Matthew 16:18
English Standard Version
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Cathode]

During slavery in the U.S., slave owners often placed disobedient slaves into hot boxes where they lingered for a period of time. Is it your theology that Jesus essentially does the same to the lost and leaves them there FOREVER?

Another question: will Jesus succeed in reconciling ALL THINGS to himself?

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

The banquet invitations were sent out to all, many rejected the invitation. But the King.

No. They give up on Him.

Man is given free will, and he chooses or rejects God.

The time of choosing is here in this life. The Father has set the boundary to this life for all to make their choice.

The Cup set before Jesus in the garden was despite all the sufferings He was about to undergo, people would still refuse Him and reject His Mercy.

“Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.”

God will save the bad and good who accept his invitation, but not those that reject His invitation. Either way the banquet will be full, and all seats taken.

 

[Mur]

The banquet invitations were sent out to all, many rejected the invitation. But the King.

No. They give up on Him.

Man is given free will, and he chooses or rejects God.

The time of choosing is here in this life. The Father has set the boundary to this life for all to make their choice.

The Cup set before Jesus in the garden was despite all the sufferings He was about to undergo, people would still refuse Him and reject His Mercy.

“Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.”

God will save the bad and good who accept his invitation, but not those that reject His invitation. Either way the banquet will be full, and all seats taken.

That Parable was describing the Jews that rejected Jesus and remained stuck in the Mosiac Law and therefore God invited Gentiles.

 

[JonC]

My brother, below is a contemporary definition for "reconcile". Jesus will "reconcile" ALL THINGS. That means that there will be unity and harmony with ALL of God's creation. The wicked will repent and follow Jesus.

rec·on·cile
/ˈrekənˌsīl/
verb
restore friendly relations between.
"she wanted to be reconciled with her father"
cause to coexist in harmony; make or show to be compatible.
"a landscape in which inner and outer vision were reconciled"

More scripture regarding reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

All things. You are imagining this means Jesus will reconcile evil to Himself.

Look, I do not care what you believe. But it appears that you have found one verse you think you can use to support your idea while denying so many passages.

And that is fine. Nobody says you have to believe all or any of Scripture. Many (most) will not.


But the word is NOT "reconcile". It is ἀποκαταλλάξαι. It is bring all things into harmony.

Kinda means something different, huh. Man is reconciled in Christ, and man will ultimately be reconciled when the wicked are cast out.

 

[Cathode]

Where does the Bible say that Jesus can't or won't love and save people after they die? It doesn't. It's another false doctrine that is endemic in mainstream Christianity.

You are not the arbiter of scriptures interpretation, you have no authority to declare false doctrine.

 

[Mur]

You are not the arbiter of scriptures interpretation, you have no authority to declare false doctrine.

You are the one declaring the doctrine that Jesus can't and won't save after one's death. I'm asking for Biblical support.

 

[Cathode]

That Parable was describing the Jews that rejected Jesus and remained stuck in the Mosiac Law and therefore God invited Gentiles.

It’s a parable about the “Kingdom of Heaven”, it’s obvious not all will be saved. All are invited, not all saved.

 

[Mur]

But the word is NOT "reconcile". It is ἀποκαταλλάξαι. It is bring all things into harmony

Ok. Will Jesus succeed at bringing ALL THINGS into harmony?

 

[Mur]

It’s a parable about the “Kingdom of Heaven”, it’s obvious not all will be saved. All are invited, not all saved.

In any event, it seems that your theology is that Jesus will fail to reconcile ALL THINGS. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Cathode]

You are the one declaring the doctrine that Jesus can't and won't save after one's death. I'm asking for Biblical support.

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”

In this life, Jesus is come to save, but in the next He is Judge.

 

[Cathode]

In any event, it seems that your theology is that Jesus will fail to reconcile ALL THINGS. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Jesus will reconcile all things, everything will be put in its proper place. Those in Hell, those Heaven the restoration of earth, everything will be ordered.