Trinity

[Charlie24]

Yep. JonC can't remember last week very well, so he isn't overly concerned about what happened before the beginning.

If I found out what happened before the beginning I wouldn't be able to remember it now. Lol.

Don't get old, it's not good.

 

[37818]

The Word was both "with God" (being someone else, John 1:1,2) and "the Word was God" (John 1:1).

 

[37818]

John said, "In the beginning," he's referring to the beginning of creation.

His point is that Christ existed at that time, and later we learn He/Christ is the Creator Himself.

This is what @JonC has been warning us about, this part right here.

Most scholars will tell you this is referring to Christs' eternal state as the Eternal Logos.

But as I'm sure Jon will point out it doesn't say that, and he will be right.

Yes, what we got is, "In the beginning was the Word."

 

[37818]

I am trying to understand your position here.

Before the beginning, what do you view the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity to have been?

I know the answer "God", but I mean are you saying that God became a Triune God at the beginning of Creation?

Yes, what we got is, "In the beginning was the Word."

We know "the Word was God." But twice said to also be someone else "with God." John 1:1-2. And as God was the Creator, John 1:3.

 

[JonC]

We know "the Word was God." But twice said to also be someone else "with God." John 1:1-2. And as God was the Creator, John 1:3.

I am aware that at Creation we see God, the Word, and the Spirit of God.

I was asking about what you think tge case was before Creation.

 

[37818]

I was asking about what you think t[h]e case was before Creation.

John 1:1-2, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The Word was always both the Son of God and God
and the Word was to be God the Creator.

 

[JonC]

John 1:1-2, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The Word was always both the Son of God and God
and the Word was to be God the Creator.

The Father is God. The Father was always both the Father and God.
The Spirit is God. The Spirit was always both the Spirit and God.
The Son is God. The Son was always both the Son and God.

The Father created all things.
All things were created through and for the Son.
The Spirit moved over the face of the deep.

Yes, we all know that God (Father, Son, and Spirit) created all that has been created. This is why John tells us "aoart from" the Word nothing was created.

But my question was about "before the beginning". Before creation. I am trying to understand your position.

 

[37818]

The Father created all things.

All things were created through and for the Son.
The Spirit moved over the face of the deep.

Ephesians 3:9, And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:16-17, . . . For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[JonC]

Ephesians 3:9, And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:16-17, . . . For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Ephesians 3:9 does not work
and to enlighten all people as to what the plan of the mystery is which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; so that the multifaceted wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord

We get that God created all things, but verse 11 reveals this to be God the Father.

Colossians 1 helps a little. We know that Christ created all things, that all things were created through Him.
But this does not exclude the Father and Spirit (you need to remove the "through" part).

for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

 

[37818]

.

But my question was about "before the beginning". Before creation. I am trying to understand your position.

I answered this in post #26.

John 1:1-2, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The Word was always both the Son of God and God
and the Word was to be God the Creator.

 

[37818]

Ephesians 3:9 does not work . . . .

. . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . .

 

[JonC]

. . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . .

I was not using the KJV.

But yes, God created all thinhs by Jesus Christ. He is the Word. Creation is the act of the Triune God.

 

[37818]

I was not using the KJV.

Only 4% of Greek Codex omit "δια ιησου χριστου"

 

[JesusFan]

" . . . with the Father as his eternal Word." But where?

Prologue of the Gospel of John

 

[JesusFan]

The Word was both "with God" (being someone else, John 1:1,2) and "the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Word was with the Father, and both were very God

 

[JonC]

We know "the Word was God." But twice said to also be someone else "with God." John 1:1-2. And as God was the Creator, John 1:3.

Tribune God. Father. Son, Spirit.....immutable.

 

[JonC]

Only 4% of Greek Codex omit "δια ιησου χριστου"

Only two major translations have it.

But it does nit change the meaning either way.

Read the Creation account again.

 

[37818]

Only two major translations have it.

But it does nit change the meaning either way.

Read the Creation account again.

John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[JonC]

John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I am not saying that Gid was visible to man during Creation.

I am saying we see all three persons if the Trinity in the Creation account.

God spoke, through that Word (by that Word) all things came into being, and rhe Spirit of God moved over rhe face of the deep.

The same Trinity we see in the New Testament is the same Trinitywe see in Creation. Why? Because God dies mot change.

 

[37818]

I am not saying that G[o]d was visible to man during Creation.

Genesis 3:8, And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: . . . .

Now this has been understood being the Son as the LORD God per John 1:18.