Imputed Righteousness

[Charlie24]

Absolutely, I will. As much as you think you can find a way around it, any means of salvation that requires external effort apart from Christ utterly destroys the meaning of grace.

What external effort? Explain that.

 

[Van]

I don't see where we disagree! I agree with everything you've said here.

Here is what I believe, God credits our faith, not ourselves, as righteousness. God makes us righteous by the washing of regeneration. Therefore we do not become the righteousness of God by imputation. Are you willing to say you agree with that view?

 

[37818]

Absolutely, I will. As much as you think you can find a way around it, any means of salvation that requires external effort apart from Christ utterly destroys the meaning of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[KenH]

if I let Him.

Such creature arrogance.

 

[Tea]

What external effort? Explain that.

It means that Christ can’t do anything unless, by your own effort, you choose to cooperate with Him.

 

[Charlie24]

Here is what I believe, God credits our faith, not ourselves, as righteousness. God makes us righteous by the washing of regeneration. Therefore we do not become the righteousness of God by imputation. Are you willing to say you agree with that view?

I believe we are washed by regeneration the very instant we believe.

Paul said, after you believed you were sealed with that Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13

The faith is counted for righteousness at that very instant.

In Rom. 4:21 Abraham believed God would perform what He had promised.

In vs. 22 that faith in God was imputed for righteousness.

In other words Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness the very instant he believed God.

In vs 23-24 just as Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness so is our faith counted as righteousness.

So I see God turning our faith into righteousness through the washing of regeneration.

I see both a legal declaration and an internal act performed by God.

 

[Silverhair]

It’s not a strawman at all. As @kyredneck has said before, it’s a statement of fact. Everyone knows that the sun is going to rise tomorrow and there’s going to be daylight. It’s silly to even have a debate on that.

According to your logic, the sun will rise, but there must be a condition met in order for us to have sunlight to go along with it. You and I both know that it would be absurd to suggest such a thing.

When you used "IF" in your sentence it became a conditional sentence Tea.

The fact that, all things being equal, the sun will rise tomorrow does not alter the fact that what you wrote was a conditional sentence.

 

[Charlie24]

Such creature arrogance.

Have you never heard of lost opportunity?

The times the Holy Spirit wanted to do something through you, but the flesh was weak and you missed the chance.

If this hasn't happened to you, then you're probably perfect and you have no need of the Spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

It means that Christ can’t do anything unless, by your own effort, you choose to cooperate with Him.

When He sent the Gospel my way all I could do is accept and believe that Gospel or reject it.

I believed and accepted Him. I had nothing to do with my salvation, it was all planned and carried out by Him.

I only said, yes Lord I believe.

 

[KenH]

The times the Holy Spirit wanted to do something through you, but the flesh was weak and you missed the chance.

There is no "missed chance" with Almighty God.

Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[Tea]

When you used "IF" in your sentence it became a conditional sentence Tea.

I don’t know about you, but when I go to bed, I’m worried about some arbitrary condition preventing the sun from rising the next morning.

 

[Charlie24]

There is no "missed chance" for Almighty God.

Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Oh Boy! You've got some big surprises coming my friend!!

 

[JesusFan]

Time and again, differing posters make or seem to make this claim, we, those saved, became righteous because God imputed or declared or credited as as righteous.

I believe this view is absolutely bogus.

Let us consider this view from scripture.

Romans 4:6 NASB
just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Here many apparently believe this verse say God causes a person to be righteous by crediting or imputing or declaring the person righteous.
But contextually, since the previous verse says God credits a person's faith as righteous, the same idea is probably in view. In other words blessings upon the person whose faith God credits as righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 says that if we are found spiritually "in Him," but we, not having a righteousness of our own derived from the Law, but having a righteousness that is through Jesus Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of credited faith. Thus we are made righteous, not by imputation or being credited as being righteous, but by the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ.

Summary, If God decides to credit our faith as righteousness to us, that does not make us righteous, but based on crediting our faith as righteousness, God then transfers us spiritually into Christ where we undergo the washing of regeneration which makes us righteous.

Last point, we become the righteousness of God only when we are "in Him."

So if not Pauline Justification, would it then be that God infuses us with divine grace then?

 

[KenH]

Oh Boy! You've got some big surprises coming my friend!!

I know what God has sovereignly and freely revealed to me.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16
As it is written,
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
Neither have entered into the heart of man,
The things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

I know what God has sovereignly and freely revealed to me.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16
As it is written,
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
Neither have entered into the heart of man,
The things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The Scripture is filled with lost opportunities while the flesh was weak but the Spirit was willing.

The parable of talents come to mind. Total lost opportunity to build treasure in Heaven forever lost.

I could mention many others but right now I'm neck deep in in stalling new cabinets.

I could literally write a book on just looking back at some of my lost opportunities I seen after they had passed.

Better rethink this, Brother!

 

[KenH]

if I let Him.

With that attitude, you sound like you think that God should thank you for "letting Him do something."

 

[KenH]

Better rethink this, Brother!

God is absolutely, totally sovereign. So there are no "lost opportunities" with God.

Now, from a human standpoint, in our fallen condition in this flesh, we might think of something as a "lost opportunity", but when we are given the understanding by the Holy Spirit of God as the Sovereign of all creation, then we are enabled to understand that there was really no "lost opportunity" at all, that it worked out as Almighty God ordained it to be for His purposes and for His glory.

 

[Charlie24]

With that attitude, you sound like you think that God should thank you for "letting Him do something."

I'm abiding by His rules, not mine.

"If thou shalt confess the Lord Jesus" see the condition?

It's His rules, His free will given to man, all of it out of my control.

I'm the one thanking Him!

 

[Charlie24]

God is absolutely, totally sovereign. So there are no "lost opportunities" with God.

Now, from a human standpoint, in our fallen condition in this flesh, we might think of something as a "lost opportunity", but when we are given the understanding by the Holy Spirit of God as the Sovereign of all creation, then we are enabled to understand that there was really no "lost opportunity" at all, that it worked out as Almighty God ordained it to be for His purposes and for His glory.

OK, no lost opportunities for Ken.

 

[Van]

I believe we are washed by regeneration the very instant we believe.

Paul said, after you believed you were sealed with that Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13

The faith is counted for righteousness at that very instant.

In Rom. 4:21 Abraham believed God would perform what He had promised.

In vs. 22 that faith in God was imputed for righteousness.

In other words Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness the very instant he believed God.

In vs 23-24 just as Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness so is our faith counted as righteousness.

So I see God turning our faith into righteousness through the washing of regeneration.

I see both a legal declaration and an internal act performed by God.

I did not see where you agreed with this statement, "we do not become the righteousness of God by imputation." Nuff said...