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Were Calvin and Luther 'saved'?

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easternstar

Member
Tea said:
Hogwash. Clearly, you are unaware of the Munster Rebellion.
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Clearly, you do not know me. I am aware of that, and it was an aberration, totally uncharacteristic of the Anabaptist movement. Whereas with the RCC and Protestant Magisterial Reformers, killing others for their religious beliefs was policy.
 
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easternstar

Member
kyredneck said:
<sigh> Just what we need, another obsessed Calvinist-slayer...
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You're quick to judgement, aren't you? You mischaracterize me. I am stating history on one hand, and my disapproval of religious murderers on the other. I hope and trust you would not approve of those who kill others for their religious beliefs.
 
Tea

Tea

Active Member
easternstar said:
Clearly, you do not know me. I am aware of that, and it was an aberration, totally uncharacteristic of the Anabaptist movement. Whereas with the RCC and Protestant Magisterial Reformers, killing others for their religious beliefs was policy.
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Sir, you really need to do your homework before you start making baseless claims and questioning the salvation of those who came before us. That’s not how you’re going to make friends here.
 
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easternstar

Member
Tea said:
Sir, you really need to do your homework before you start making baseless claims and questioning the salvation of those who came before us. That’s not how you’re going to make friends here.
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Sir, I know church history, having studied it intensively and extensively for 50 years. Anything I state about it is fact. Facts are stubborn things; they can't be changed. Someone with deficient knowledge, such as yourself, might challenge them, but facts remain.
 
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easternstar

Member
I don't know if Luther and Calvin, and others like them, were saved or not. I asked for opinions on that. I'm not the judge or jury. Their fate was/is in God's hands. I still wonder about this: Can an unrepentant murderer be saved? Maybe they repented of that before they died, but I've found no historical evidence of it.
 
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easternstar

Member
Want more Christian history, evidence of Protestant/Calvinist state-church crimes? In the mid 1600's, four Quakers were hanged on Boston Common by the Puritan theocracy.
Religious liberty was gained for all of Christendom by Anabaptist, Quaker, and Baptist martyrs.

I'll add that it strikes me as strange to see the murderous actions and beliefs of Calvin and Luther defended on a Baptist forum.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Luther and Calvin, like everybody else, were sinners saved by grace because the Lord Jesus Christ had graciously taken their sins upon Himself and paid the penalty for then in full.
The apostle Paul was by his own confession, a murderer (Acts 22:4; 26:10). Just as he was used in an extraordinary way by God, so were Luther and Calvin.
 
Tea

Tea

Active Member
easternstar said:
Sir, I know church history, having studied it intensively and extensively for 50 years. Anything I state about it is fact. Facts are stubborn things; they can't be changed. Someone with deficient knowledge, such as yourself, might challenge them, but facts remain.
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So far, you've made at least one factual error regarding the Anabaptists, and it looks like you've turned to deflection, which should cause you some embarrassment.

It also appears that your goal is to bash Luther, Calvin, and anyone who has anything positive to say about them.

Yeah, we’re going to get along just fine.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Tea said:
Hogwash. Clearly, you are unaware of the Munster Rebellion.
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Point of clarification - Matthys (and the Anabaptists involved in the rebellion) were "Anabaptists" like Mormons are "Christians".

They did hold to believers baptism but they rejected most of what we consider to be Anabaptist theology (most of what Anabaptists believed).
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Martin Marprelate said:
Luther and Calvin, like everybody else, were sinners saved by grace because the Lord Jesus Christ had graciously taken their sins upon Himself and paid the penalty for then in full.
The apostle Paul was by his own confession, a murderer (Acts 22:4; 26:10). Just as he was used in an extraordinary way by God, so were Luther and Calvin.
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I think the point @easternstar was making is that these crimes occurred as these men were professing to be Christian.

Who did Paul murder after his conversion?
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JonC said:
Point of clarification - Matthys (and the Anabaptists involved in the rebellion) were "Anabaptists" like Mormons are "Christians".

They did hold to believers baptism but they rejected most of what we consider to be Anabaptist theology (most of what Anabaptists believed).
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For clarity-

You believe Mormons are saved?
 
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