Imputed Righteousness

[Tea]

Does not change the following.

Those who are of God are the ones who can hear, so it is consistent with John 8:47.

 

[Silverhair]

The implication that the creature can thwart the will of the creator.



It is true that God created the surrounding events that ultimately resulted in Adam's fall, but Adam remained accountable for his sin, and God is not the author of evil. The lamb was sacrificed before the world was created, and it was God's intention to redeem a specific group of people to bring glory to Himself.



If anything at all can be determined apart from God, then He truly isn't sovereign.



Hypothetical conditional. No one seeks after God.

Romans 3:11 (ESV)
No one understands; no one seeks for God.



Statement of fact. Those who live according to the flesh are lost, and those who live after the spirit are saved.



Hypothetical conditional. Everyone knows that Christ has been raised.

“Who said anything about overpowering God but it still comes down to a condition even then. "IF" God pushed someone of a bridge into the water then they would get wet. The condition is "IF".

Even your question of whether I could overpower God is a condition. "IF" I could have overpowered God then He could not have pushed me into the water.” from my post # 266


Tea how is that an implication that the creature can thwart the will of the creator. You are reaching in your effort to deny that “IF” indicates a condition.


Further you then overlook your own theological position of divine determinism, that God has determined freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass. You say Adam had a free will but under calvinism how is that possible? It is not. So the calvinist wants free will when it is convenient but then falls back too determinism to support their non-biblical views.


No one questions that God has determined some things, eg the crucifixion, but where the calvinist goes of the rails is when you add to scripture what is not found there, eg that the crucifixion was just for a select group.


To quote you Tea “If anything at all can be determined apart from God, then He truly isn't sovereign.”

Why do you limit God? You do realize that if what you said were true then you have just made Him truly evil as no sin could come about unless He determined it. Your view of the sovereignty of God is not biblical but it is calvinistic.


Odd that you would say no one seeks after God when He says they can and that they can find Him or are you suggesting that God was being disingenuous?


Deu 4:29 But if from there you will seek the LORD your God, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jos 24:20 If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, He will turn and bring disaster on you and consume you, even after He has been good to you.”

Did the Jews not suffer when they turned form God?

Their history shows that was not hypothetical.

For support you used Rom 3:11
The statement that "there is none who seeks after God" (Rom_3:11) means that no one seeks God without God prompting him or her to do so and He does this through various means whether it be creation, (Rom 1:20) conviction of sin (Joh 16:8-9) or the gospel message (1Co 15:1-4). It does not mean that people are constitutionally incapable of seeking God. People can and should seek God (Act_17:26-27), and they are responsible for not doing so.

As we see in

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith.

Paul uses the conditional sentence to make a point.

IF you live one way you die IF you live another you will live. Just as IF God had not raise Christ than we would have no basis for our faith.

Tea you continue to go to great lengths to deny IF indicates a condition. You are letting your calvinist determinism cloud your mind.

 

[Charlie24]

Those who are of God are the ones who can hear, so it is consistent with John 8:47.

What does John 8 teach us about who is not of God?

 

[37818]

Those who are of God are the ones who can hear, so it is consistent with John 8:47.

Jesus was speaking to those who were not of God because they did not heed God's words.

John 8: 47, . . . He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. . . . .

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus was speaking to those who were not of God because they did not heed God's words.

John 8: 47, . . . He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. . . . .

A good example of what you've said is David, the man after God's own heart.

He desired the things of God, he wanted God's will although he failed many times.

The Pharisees in John 8 were just the opposite, they walked after their own desires.

 

[Charlie24]

A good example of what you've said is David, the man after God's own heart.

He desired the things of God, he wanted God's will although he failed many times.

The Pharisees in John 8 were just the opposite, they walked after their own desires.

The Calvinist Handbook is absent of such facts!

 

[JesusFan]

“Who said anything about overpowering God but it still comes down to a condition even then. "IF" God pushed someone of a bridge into the water then they would get wet. The condition is "IF".

Even your question of whether I could overpower God is a condition. "IF" I could have overpowered God then He could not have pushed me into the water.” from my post # 266


Tea how is that an implication that the creature can thwart the will of the creator. You are reaching in your effort to deny that “IF” indicates a condition.


Further you then overlook your own theological position of divine determinism, that God has determined freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass. You say Adam had a free will but under calvinism how is that possible? It is not. So the calvinist wants free will when it is convenient but then falls back too determinism to support their non-biblical views.


No one questions that God has determined some things, eg the crucifixion, but where the calvinist goes of the rails is when you add to scripture what is not found there, eg that the crucifixion was just for a select group.


To quote you Tea “If anything at all can be determined apart from God, then He truly isn't sovereign.”

Why do you limit God? You do realize that if what you said were true then you have just made Him truly evil as no sin could come about unless He determined it. Your view of the sovereignty of God is not biblical but it is calvinistic.


Odd that you would say no one seeks after God when He says they can and that they can find Him or are you suggesting that God was being disingenuous?


Deu 4:29 But if from there you will seek the LORD your God, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jos 24:20 If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, He will turn and bring disaster on you and consume you, even after He has been good to you.”

Did the Jews not suffer when they turned form God?

Their history shows that was not hypothetical.

For support you used Rom 3:11
The statement that "there is none who seeks after God" (Rom_3:11) means that no one seeks God without God prompting him or her to do so and He does this through various means whether it be creation, (Rom 1:20) conviction of sin (Joh 16:8-9) or the gospel message (1Co 15:1-4). It does not mean that people are constitutionally incapable of seeking God. People can and should seek God (Act_17:26-27), and they are responsible for not doing so.

As we see in

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith.

Paul uses the conditional sentence to make a point.

IF you live one way you die IF you live another you will live. Just as IF God had not raise Christ than we would have no basis for our faith.

Tea you continue to go to great lengths to deny IF indicates a condition. You are letting your calvinist determinism cloud your mind.

Either God intended that the Cross was where Jesus died to provide a particular atonement and salvation, and that will be a definite group coming to Jesus, or else he intended to save all sinners by it, and waits upon our response, hoping some will make the "right decision" to now get saved

 

[Silverhair]

Either God intended that the Cross was where Jesus died to provide a particular atonement and salvation, and that will be a definite group coming to Jesus, or else he intended to save all sinners by it, and waits upon our response, hoping some will make the "right decision" to now get saved

You almost got that right. He foreknows all who will freely trust in Him but none are saved until they freely trust in Him.
It is the error of your man-made theology that has God save a particular group.

Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.