1JN.2:2...A.W.Pink

[Martin Marprelate]

@Martin Marprelate

Our sins show us that we are sinners. Sins do not make us sinners. We sin because we are sinners.

We sin because we fall short of the glory of God. Sins are the fruit of a mind set on the flesh (Gal 5).

Our sins seperaye us ftom God in that our sins show us who we are.

What is the penalty (under God's law) for theft? Exodus 22 tells us. It is the thieg paying the value of what was stolen back to the individual. That is not punishment, per se, but it is justice.

Your philosophy is that the judge must collect the amount (it does not matter who pays) because that is what the law demands.
But that is false.

The law actually demands that the thief forfeit what was stolen and it be returned to the owner.

Your philosophy of justice is wrong.

I only just saw this. It is truly awful. Did you really think I wouldn't bother to look at the text you referenced?
I want to ask anybody reading this thread to read Exodus 22.
Verse 1. 'If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.'
Verse 4. 'If the theft is certainly found alive in his hand, whether it is an ox or donkey or sheep, he shall restore double.'
These are penal sanctions. It is not simply paying back the amount stolen. You will find the same thing in verses 7 & 9.
Someone's philosophy of justice is wrong, but I think you'll find it's you.

 

[JonC]

I only just saw this. It is truly awful. Did you really think I wouldn't bother to look at the text you referenced?
I want to ask anybody reading this thread to read Exodus 22.
Verse 1. 'If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.'
Verse 4. 'If the theft is certainly found alive in his hand, whether it is an ox or donkey or sheep, he shall restore double.'
These are penal sanctions. It is not simply paying back the amount stolen. You will find the same thing in verses 7 & 9.
Someone's philosophy of justice is wrong, but I think you'll find it's you.

It is penalty, but it is restoration. You missed my other comments.

Restoration is not just towards the one harmed. It is to the people as a whole.

This is the goal of God punishing the wicked. Where you view it as God meeting the demands of justice in order that God can act it is quite the opposite.

The wicked are punished by being "cast out". The wicked are expelled. This restores the people.

If you are wicked at judgment then you will be cast out.

If your faith is thar God punished Jesus for your sins and therefore your debt is paid, but you have not actually experienced the real (the biblical) purpose actually accomplished by Jesus' death then you will experience the second death and an eternal punishment.

Your salvation itself depends on you being wrong about the cross, you not actually leaning on that understanding, and Christ's death as having the worth you deny it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are making Christ's blood shed for us, and divine justice, too superficial.

What does this punishment in your theory accomplish? It accomplishes nothing. The wicked are still wicked.

Stop being so silly! You know better than that.
When God's justice is vindicated, then God sends His Spirit to give people news hearts and spirits. It is after our Lord's ascension that the Spirit is poured out (John 16:7; Acts 2:33).

Christ's death did so much more than you are willing to admit. The cross actually is the reconciliation of God and man, no matter how much you want it to be an accounting took used by God to meet what the law requires of Him.

Of course the cross is the reconciliation between God and man! But God's justice has to be satisfied first (Romans 3:25-26 again!) so that He can be 'just and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.' I have been through all this so many times.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It is penalty,

Thank you! I thought we would never get there.

but it is restoration. You missed my other comments.

Restoration is not just towards the one harmed. It is to the people as a whole.

No, it is restoration to the party injured. If the community is injured, albeit accidentally (v.6), then the restitution is to the community.
That is just.

This is the goal of God punishing the wicked. Where you view it as God meeting the demands of justice in order that God can act it is quite the opposite.

The wicked are punished by being "cast out". The wicked are expelled. This restores the people.

If you are wicked at judgment then you will be cast out.

Good to remember at this time of year that 'Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners' (1 Tim. 1:15) and 'I did not come to judge the world but to save it' (John 12:47b). The cross does not condemn people; it saves them, while preserving the justice of God..