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Faith # 4

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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Ascetic X said:
Hyper-Calvinism is ideal for timid folks and lazy types.

Historically, hyper-Calvinism has contended that the Holy Spirit regenerates the elect apart from the hearing of the Gospel and that one can be regenerate without believing—perhaps without ever believing. They argue that Gospel preaching does not result in people getting saved—rather it locates those already born again.

It is aggressively anti-missions and opposed to sharing faith (evangelism), because it denies the need to preach the gospel to all people, believing that God's predestination means only the elect will be saved regardless of external effort.

Thus, no need to repent, hear the gospel, or believe the Word. God chooses you and does all that stuff for you, over-riding your will. Super Easy Non-Believism. You do nothing, just wait and see if you are an elected one or not. Preaching and witnessing are not needed. Getting Bibles to foreign lands is a waste of time.

In contrast, historic Calvinism, championed by figures like John Calvin himself, emphasizes the importance of evangelism and missions as ordained means by which God accomplishes His purposes, though it differs from Arminianism in the understanding of human will and divine grace.

Hyper-Calvinism

Denies the need for evangelism: Believes that since God has already chosen who will be saved (predestination), there is no point in evangelizing people, who are mostly the non-elect.

Opposes missions: Rejects the idea that the gospel should be preached to all people, or at least to those who show no signs of being chosen. And what would those signs be?

Contradicts the "well-meant offer": Rejects the idea that God offers salvation to everyone who hears the gospel, even if only the elect are ultimately saved.

I Timothy 2:3,4 3
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Romans 10:12-13
For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, / for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (NOT “is already saved.”)

Isaiah 45:22
Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (NOT “Turning to Me means you are already saved”).

Thus, many statements by Jesus are negated entirely.
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I was always tolerable of those who claimed 4pt. Calvinism, but the 5 pt. make a good argument there is no such thing as a 4pt. Calvinist.

I wonder if any of the Calvinists here have been involved on either side of this argument?
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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Ascetic X said:
Historically, hyper-Calvinism has contended that the Holy Spirit regenerates the elect apart from the hearing of the Gospel and that one can be regenerate without believing—perhaps without ever believing. They argue that Gospel preaching does not result in people getting saved—rather it locates those already born again.
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That's actually a decent explanation synopsis of Monergism/Sovereign Grace. Maybe if you could succeed stamping this theology out, we could finally have world peace.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Tea said:
That is true; however, the process of that occurring unfolds within the realm of time. It is similar to Christ being called the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, yet the actual event of the crucifixion had to take place for that reality to hold true.
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Christ took away their sins.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
They still were forgiven of all sin by the death of Christ
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Since the death of Christ covered the sins of the whole of humanity then you BF have just made yourself a universalist.

Joh_3:17 world through Him might be saved
Heb_2:9 should taste death for every man
1Jn_2:2 propitiation for the whole world
1Ti_2:5-6 gave Himself a ransom for all
1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of believers
Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly
Rom_5:8 while we were still sinners,Christ died for us.

It is obvious that you have misunderstood the bible again.

Christ's death saved no one BF we are saved by His life.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
 
Ascetic X

Ascetic X

Active Member
Not one single Bible verse says “Christ Death was only for the forgiven of mankind.”

I John 2:2
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Of course, Jesus dying for the sins of all humanity only benefits a specific person if they repent and trust Christ.

Evangelist to lost soul: “Be of good cheer, the potential for salvation is extended to all.”

Lost soul: “Even to a sinner as bad as me?”

Hyper Calvinist: “Maybe. If you are an elect.”
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Tea said:
That guarantees their salvation, but that doesn’t take effect until they hear the Gospel and repent.
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They were forgiven by the blood of Christ when He shed it for them Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Out of Grace !

Faith that Believes in Christ, that rests in His finished work for God's People, God's Salvation to His Israel, this Faith originates in the Grace of God, its the Grace of the Spirit of God Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look[with Faith or Hope] upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Its a Gift of Grace to put Faith in Christ, we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on account of] grace:

That word through is the greek word dia and is translated on the account of Grace, the Grace of the Spirit !

For Faith is strictly of a Divine Source , and it cannot be found in the natural man of the flesh, and so as Paul teaches, it is not of ourselves, it is the Gift of God, the Gift of God's Grace which also is the Spirit !

Faith is the fruit of having been quickened to Life by the Spirit Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Its been given to us that Truly believe, in order that we would truly believe, and so it was not an act of our so called freewill, but it has been granted to us on behalf of Christ to believe on Him Phil 1:29; And it was not just being given the ability to believe, to do when we will or not, but it is the actual conferment of Faith the act, hence it is given given to us to believe , in that its the result and effect of spiritual life communicated and the inner working of the Spirit of God, to will and do of His Good Pleasure ! 6
 
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