Understanding 2 Thessalonians 2:13

[Brightfame52]

Are you saying that Christ repents for them BF? Yes or No.

You avoiding

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another idiotic absurdity,

See the attitude against sacred truth.

 

[Van]

See the attitude against sacred truth.

Endless diversion from the actual topic is all Calvinism has to offer, when 2 Thessalonians 2:13 proves God chooses individuals, and has done so from the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood, by transferring the individuals into Christ spiritually based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

Endless diversion from the actual topic is all Calvinism has to offer, when 2 Thessalonians 2:13 proves God chooses individuals, and has done so from the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood, by transferring the individuals into Christ spiritually based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

They were chosen from the beginning Gen 1:1 before adam was created. Their names had been written in the lambs book of life from the beginning of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Van]

They were chosen from the beginning Gen 1:1 before adam was created. Their names had been written in the lambs book of life from the beginning of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yet another false claim, in the endless parade of false claims. Here "in the beginning" is said be "from the beginning." If I asked, is it ignorance or apathy, the poster might reply, I do not know and I do not care...

Next, note the mistranslation of Revelation 13:8. The correct translation is "whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered" per NASB. If you doubt the above posted version is a mistranslation, just compare it to Revelation 17:8.

Note the name of each individual transferred spiritually into Christ has been written in the Lamb's book of Life since the foundation of the world, This time frame will stretch from the creation of fallen humanity until at least the end of the age, when Christ returns.

Calvinism denies this verse (Revelation 13:8) just like many others including 2 Thessalonians 2:13. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 proves God chooses individuals, and has done so from the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood, by transferring the individuals into Christ spiritually based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another false claim,

No its not, they were chosen from the beginning 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[Van]

No its not, they were chosen from the beginning 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The false claim is to claim individuals were chosen "in the beginning" Genesis 1:1. See post #204. All these Calvinists do is post non-stop falsehoods to hide the fact 2 Thessalonians 2:13 proves their false doctrine of unconditional individual election for salvation is false.

Look at how many times they post idiotic absurdity such as post #206!!!

Folks, not to put too fine a point on it, but God has been choosing individuals for salvation from the creation of fallen humanity in two different ways, under the Old Covenant and under the New Covenant. This seems to be beyond the grasp of each and every Calvinist. None have acknowledged this obvious truth.

Some outright deny those chosen under the Old Covenant were taken to Abraham's bosom when they physically died and waited there until they were made perfect by the precious blood of the Lamb after Christ died on the cross.

 

[Silverhair]

You avoiding

No BF you have made a comment and I am asking you to make a clear statement.

Are you saying that Christ repents for them BF? Yes or No.

I ask because your comments are not clear as to what you think.

Here we see clearly that it is the person that has to repent
Act 3:19 Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away,

Repentance is a turning away from sin, Christ can not give that to a person.
Peter tells the people to turn to God, which in simpler language is: repent and believe. [cf Mar_1:15]

 

[Brightfame52]

The false claim is to claim individuals were chosen "in the beginning" Genesis 1:1. See post #204. All these Calvinists do is post non-stop falsehoods to hide the fact 2 Thessalonians 2:13 proves their false doctrine of unconditional individual election for salvation is false.

They were chosen to salvation from the beginning 2 Thess 2:13. They were not yet born from the beginning Gen 1:1

 

[Brightfame52]

No BF you have made a comment and I am asking you to make a clear statement.

Yes you are, evasion. Thats how you evade, by evading then asking a question, duh

 

[Silverhair]

Yes you are, evasion. Thats how you evade, by evading then asking a question, duh

You have just described most of your posts BF.

You do not answer questions but rather try to deflect with an off the topic question or by asking the same answered question over and over when you do not like the answer.

You have yet to support your claim re Act 5:31. That verse does not support the view you are saying does.

So answer the question BF.

Who repents, Christ or the person?

That is not a hard question BF so why do you have such a problem answering it?

 

[Brightfame52]

You have just described most of your posts BF.

Thats you. Why was Christ exalted by God here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Brightfame52]

You have yet to support your claim re Act 5:31. That verse does not support the view you are saying does.

Lets see John Gill writes of Acts 5:31

for to give repentance to Israel; to the Israel whom God has chosen for himself, and Christ has redeemed by his blood, and whom the Spirit calls by his graee: these being sinners, as well as others, stand in need of repentance; and whereas this is not in any man's power, but is the free gift of God's grace; for though he should give men time and space to repent, and afford them the means of it, yet if he does not give them grace to repent, they never will, such is the hardness of man's heart; Christ is appointed to give this grace to the chosen ones, which he does by sending his Spirit to convince of sin, and to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh: Acts 5:31 Commentaries: "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Silverhair]

Thats you. Why was Christ exalted by God here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Who repents, Christ or the person?
That is not a hard question BF so why do you have such a problem answering it?

 

[Silverhair]

Lets see John Gill writes of Acts 5:31

Did not know you were John Gill.

But either way you have still not answered the question BF.

Who repents, Christ or the person?
That is not a hard question BF so why do you have such a problem answering it?

 

[Brightfame52]

Who repents, Christ or the person?
That is not a hard question BF so why do you have such a problem answering it?

Why was Christ exalted by God here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did not know you were John Gill.

But either way you have still not answered the question BF.

Who repents, Christ or the person?
That is not a hard question BF so why do you have such a problem answering it?

Why was Christ exalted by God here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yet another false claim, in the endless parade of false claims.

I think you should not constantly accuse others of making false claims. It really doesn't help your case since you only back your case up by making more false claims.

Next, note the mistranslation of Revelation 13:8. The correct translation is "whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered" per NASB. If you doubt the above posted version is a mistranslation, just compare it to Revelation 17:8.

That is one translation, even though it does not follow the word order of the Greek. Another translation is from the NKJV. '.... Whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.' The question is, should the phrase ' from the foundation of the world' be taken with 'slain' or 'written'? Usually, one would take it with the nearest antecedent, which is 'slain.' However, Rev. 17:8 says, 'And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.' The verse leaves out the reference to the slain Lamb so that the reference seems to be to the Book of Life.

So I agree that the reference in Rev. 13:8 is to the Book of Life. However, the word for 'written' is gegraptai, which is in the Perfect Tense, which denotes a completed action done in the past with continuing relevance. Anyone who is a Christian today has had his name written in the Lamb's Book of Life which has been written once and for all [ever] since the foundation of the world.

 

[Van]

They were chosen to salvation from the beginning 2 Thess 2:13. They were not yet born from the beginning Gen 1:1

Unbiblical nonsense. To claim from the beginning does not refer to since the beginning is idiotic nonsense.

 

[Van]

I think you should not constantly accuse others of making false claims. It really doesn't help your case since you only back your case up by making more false claims.

That is one translation, even though it does not follow the word order of the Greek. Another translation is from the NKJV. '.... Whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.' The question is, should the phrase ' from the foundation of the world' be taken with 'slain' or 'written'? Usually, one would take it with the nearest antecedent, which is 'slain.' However, Rev. 17:8 says, 'And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.' The verse leaves out the reference to the slain Lamb so that the reference seems to be to the Book of Life.

So I agree that the reference in Rev. 13:8 is to the Book of Life. However, the word for 'written' is gegraptai, which is in the Perfect Tense, which denotes a completed action done in the past with continuing relevance. Anyone who is a Christian today has had his name written in the Lamb's Book of Life which has been written once and for all [ever] since the foundation of the world.

The false claim made by Brightflame52 was that Genesis 1:1 referred to something happening "from the beginning." It says "in the beginning" in the NKJV so your claim is also false.

I agree, everyone whose name has been written in the book of life will always have their name in that Book, once saved, always saved. However your unstated claim, implied, "ever since" pinning the supposed writing at the foundation, rather than the interval after. This too is false doctrine, as "from the beginning, or from the foundation of the world (fallen humanity) refers to the whole time frame rather than than just at the beginning.