SOME WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH

[Charlie24]

1) Please do not use the Old Covenant to define the New Covenant. Old Covenant no one was indwelt forever and ever. New Covenant we are indwelt forever and ever.

2) No flesh was justified by the Law. What your verse says is "if" you could live a sinless life, you would not die. The rub is it does NOT say the only way to do that is to be washed by the blood of the Lamb.

3) The purpose of the Law is to lead the lost to Christ, to make them aware of their sin, and the consequences. Those under the Law that obtained salvation and were taken to Abraham's bosom were chosen because they had a faith like Abraham's, i.e. credited as righteousness.

Yep, that was about what I thought.

 

[Van]

I guess what I'm asking is how can a righteous man turn from his righteousness? What does that mean?

Is there any example in Scripture of how this can be explained?

Sorry, I did not address this post, I missed your question.

Let us look at the verse:

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Ezekiel 18:24 NASB​

“But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness, commits injustice and does according to all the abominations that the wicked person does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.​

​

First, consider just what a "righteous person" is under the Old Covenant. They have not been washed with the blood of Jesus. Second, have they or will they sin? Yes.​

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Ecc. 7:20 NASB​

Indeed, there is not a righteous person on earth who always does good and does not ever sin. ​

​

So a righteous person would be someone striving to keep the law, but when he or she stumbles, they have turned way from their works based righteousness, and are therefore still condemned. Christ is necessary.​

​

 

[Charlie24]

Sorry, I did not address this post, I missed your question.

Let us look at the verse:

​

Ezekiel 18:24 NASB​

“But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness, commits injustice and does according to all the abominations that the wicked person does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.​

​

First, consider just what a "righteous person" is under the Old Covenant. They have not been washed with the blood of Jesus. Second, have they or will they sin? Yes.​

​

​

Ecc. 7:20 NASB​

​

Indeed, there is not a righteous person on earth who always does good and does not ever sin. ​

​

So a righteous person would be someone striving to keep the law, but when he or she stumbles, they have turned way from their works based righteousness, and are therefore still condemned. Christ is necessary.​

​

Abraham was granted the righteousness of God before the Law existed. Man has always been saved by grace through faith, before the Law, during the Law, and after the Law. The righteousness is the same no matter the time in which man lived.

When you're convinced man can't lose his salvation by turning from his righteousness/turning from his faith that saved him, it's a rejection of the responsibility to endure in the faith to the end. It's not God's responsibility, it's yours.

Heb. 3:14

"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

Notice the "IF" it means responsibility.

 

[Charlie24]

Abraham was granted the righteousness of God before the Law existed. Man has always been saved by grace through faith, before the Law, during the Law, and after the Law. The righteousness is the same no matter the time in which man lived.

When you're convinced man can't lose his salvation by turning from his righteousness/turning from his faith that saved him, it's a rejection of the responsibility to endure in the faith to the end. It's not God's responsibility, it's yours.

Heb. 3:14

"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

Notice the "IF" it means responsibility.

You may as well call yourself a Calvinist, Van, Irresistible Grace, God's responsibility to keep you saved.

You can just sail with no responsibility, no worries, God holds all the responsibilities.

 

[Van]

Abraham was granted the righteousness of God before the Law existed. Man has always been saved by grace through faith, before the Law, during the Law, and after the Law. The righteousness is the same no matter the time in which man lived.

When you're convinced man can't lose his salvation by turning from his righteousness/turning from his faith that saved him, it's a rejection of the responsibility to endure in the faith to the end. It's not God's responsibility, it's yours.

Heb. 3:14

"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

Notice the "IF" it means responsibility.

NO! Abraham was NOT granted the righteousness of God!!!!!!!

Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness to him. Romans 4:9

What is our responsibility to endure "in the faith" to the end? At communion do we not evaluate ourselves to see if we are "in the faith?" 2 Corinthians 13:5. If we determine we are indeed indwelt, what is our conclusion? We are indwelt forever and ever! If we determine we were mistaken, and never saved, never indwelt, what is our conclusion. Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Folks, if you only learn one thing, let it be this: You do not obtain the righteousness of God because of something you will or do! You obtain the righteousness of God by the washing of regeneration. Christ died for you. No one comes to the Father except through Him. Hang on to this truth, folks, as the demonically inspired doctrines of the past may pry you away from effective witness as Ambassadors of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

NO! Abraham was NOT granted the righteousness of God!!!!!!!

Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness to him. Romans 4:9

What is our responsibility to endure "in the faith" to the end? At communion do we not evaluate ourselves to see if we are "in the faith?" 2 Corinthians 13:5. If we determine we are indeed indwelt, what is our conclusion? We are indwelt forever and ever! If we determine we were mistaken, and never saved, never indwelt, what is our conclusion. Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Folks, if you only learn one thing, let it be this: You do not obtain the righteousness of God because of something you will or do! You obtain the righteousness of God by the washing of regeneration. Christ died for you. No one comes to the Father except through Him. Hang on to this truth, folks, as the demonically inspired doctrines of the past may pry you away from effective witness as Ambassadors of Christ.

You can disagree all you want, I'm not going to argue.

Rom. 4:6

"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,"

God imputes His righteousness in the OT believer just as He does the NT believer.

Believe it or not, Van!

 

[37818]

.

You may as well call yourself a Calvinist, Van, Irresistible Grace, God's responsibility to keep you saved.

You can just sail with no responsibility, no worries, God holds all the responsibilities.

John 10:28, . . . neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
{Any, is understood to include self.}

 

[Van]

You can disagree all you want, I'm not going to argue.

Rom. 4:6

"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,"

God imputes His righteousness in the OT believer just as He does the NT believer.

Believe it or not, Van!

You know you added "His" to the verse.

You seem to be pretending God cannot credit righteousness, to a person without making the person just as perfect as when washed with the blood of the Lamb.

What reason do you have for the OT saints having to wait in Abraham's bosom to be made perfect until after Christ died? God had credited their faith as righteousness to them! Why were they not made perfect and go straight to the kingdom of heaven.

Folks, if you only learn one thing, let it be this: You do not obtain the righteousness of God because of something you will or do! You obtain the righteousness of God by the washing of regeneration. Christ died for you. No one comes to the Father except through Him. Hang on to this truth, folks, as the demonically inspired doctrines of the past may pry you away from effective witness as Ambassadors of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

.
John 10:28, . . . neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

We pluck ourselves out of His hand through falling back to unbelief.

2 Peter 2:20-22

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

 

[Charlie24]

You know you added "His" to the verse.

Where does the righteousness imputed to man come from? There is only one place?

Maybe you know of another righteousness?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And now, even now, from now on, Matthew 25:32-34 and and 41 and 46 will fulfill LITERALLY.

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall SEPARATE them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:->(REVELATION 11:15-18, THERE WILL BE WAR against the world of Devil-Revelation 12:7-17 and Revelation 16:13-15 and Revelation 6:14-17, take a look. The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, Self-Executing, Self-Executable, around 2000 years ago the Word was made flesh, understand? )

33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. ->(This will fulfill LITERALLY from now on).

34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:->(Matthew 5:5 combined with Revelation 5:10, take a look)


41 Then shall the King say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:->(Romans 2:6 and 8-9) but the righteous into life eternal.->(Romans 2:6-7)


Matthew 25:6-13

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. ->(As all can see, who went to by oil and who was selling oil, they all lost their souls for all eternity).

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. ->( Yes, it's impossible to know when day 1335 will be-Daniel 12:12. By the way, day 1334 will be the last day of this current world of the Devil, the MAN of sin, the son of perdition->2Thessalonians 2:3

To all
Be prepared or else get ready

Where exactly is it… 1335?

 

[Charlie24]

We pluck ourselves out of His hand through falling back to unbelief.

2 Peter 2:20-22

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

Faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ is not a one time event of confession, we pick up that faith on a daily basis living out our faith.

It's like the parable by Christ when the cares of this world overtook them and they fell away.

We have a responsibility to hold our faith to the end, Paul called it the good fight of faith.

 

[37818]

You know you added "His" to the verse.

The Greek verb translated "imputes" is in the 3rd Person singular.
λογιζεται.

 

[37818]

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We pluck ourselves out of His hand through falling back to unbelief.

"Any," τις. Excludes self.

 

[Silverhair]

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John 10:28, . . . neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
{Any, is understood to include self.}

{Any, is understood to include self.}

Based on what?


This does not agree with your view

Shall any - The word “any” refers to any power that might attempt it. It will apply either to men or to devils. It is an affirmation that no man, however eloquent in error, or persuasive in infidelity, or cunning: in argument, or mighty in rank; and that no devil with all his malice, power, cunning, or allurements, shall be able to pluck them from his hand,
Pluck them - In the original to rob; to seize and bear away as a robber does his prey. Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a robber does, or overcome him by force. Barnes

No one can even snatch His sheep out of His hand. “Snatch” is harpasei, related to harpax (“ravenous wolves, robbers”). This is a fitting word here for the same verb (harpazei) is used in Joh_10:12, “the wolf attacks” (lit., “snatches away”). BKC

Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.—Better (comp. Joh_10:18), and none shall pluck them . . . The words should not be limited by the insertion of the word man. They are to be taken as including every spiritual foe; all thieves and robbers that would break into the fold; all wolves that would rend the flock; the adversary who “as a roaring lion walketh about seeking whom he may devour.” (Comp. especially for the full thought of no separation from Christ, Rom_8:38-39.) The words “out of my hand” express alike the strength which protects, and guidance which leads, and comfort which cherishes. (See Isa_40:11.) Out of this hand none shall pluck. Yet we are to bear in mind that the sheep itself may wander from the shepherd’s care, and that all the fulness of these promises depends upon the human will, which is included in the first clause, “My sheep hear my voice . . . and they follow me.” Ellicott

 

[37818]

{Any, is understood to include self.}

Based on what?

The meaning of "any."
τις.

Taking the meaning as "some," makes the passage meaningless.
John 10:28.

 

[Alex2165]

I would probably divide Christians on two major groups. One group are those who prefer easy way to Heaven. They like to hear only general terminology of the Bible describing Faith and Salvation. Church loves this general terminology and brainwashing people by it every Sunday.

2Timothy 4.3-4
3.The prime time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires (Isaiah 30.10).
4.and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.

The second group of Christians are those who look at the requirements and conditions of the general terminology. General terminology is like the name of the book or a movie; it just called people to Christ without giving any specifics. But the Requirements and Conditions of Faith and for Salvation are many and specifically describe and teach about what is the real Faith is and how it leads to Salvation. The churches do not teach Requirements, Conditions, and Obligations what GOD imposed on Christians on their Faith and om their Salvation, because nobody among so called "Christians" like to hear this.

This is why many "Christians" ignoring details of the Faith and Salvation and prefer the general terms, convincing themselves that it alone would save them.

Even such giants of Faith like David, even they fall to temptations and lost their Fear of GOD and the Faith in GOD'S ability to see sin and judge them accordingly. But David sincerely recovered, repented, and came back to the Lord, and had been forgiven. But majority of the Christians losing their Faith for the lack of the Fear of GOD and of their weak Faith and they lost to the Lord as the lost sheep.

1Peter 4.17-18
17. The time has come for judgment to begin with the household of GOD, if it begins with us, what will be the end for those who do not obey the Gospel of GOD?
18.And: ‘If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinners?' (Proverbs 11.31)
​

The best example of how people losing their Faith is indicated in the parables of Christ about sower of seeds.

 

[Silverhair]

The meaning of "any."
τις.

Taking the meaning as "some," makes the passage meaningless.
John 10:28.

Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

Your view does not fit the text 37.

No one snatch them but it does not mean that the person cannot walk away. People can turn away from the faith they had and repudiate God.

 

[Charlie24]

.
"Any," τις. Excludes self.

I believe in eternal security as long as our faith is present.

Even the backslider has not lost his salvation, that's the purpose of God's chastisement, to bring them back.

It's when His correction is ignored and faith fades that man is in danger.

Eventually, and only God knows, that faith that saved him is no longer present.

 

[Oseas3]

Where exactly is it… 1335?

Daniel 12:7-13
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. ->(Revelation 22:11-12:->11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be).

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The mysterious day 1,335 - Daniel 12:v.12 | Friends Of Jesus

The mysterious day 1,335 - Daniel 12:v.12 Time is ticking, ticking, ticking; see, don't sleep, but if you're already asleep, wake up, and take in mind

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