Drifting to war.

[JonC]

@Silverhair

I think the ultimate issue has been pointed at by @Van . Many in the US want to return to a state where the US does not rely on other nations. At the same time most, if not all, of our alies rely on the US.

The difference is the US can survive without those countries, but those countries cannot without the US.

I agree with @Van that a sovereign nation should not be dependent on another nation for its existence. Today, most are.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair

I think the ultimate issue has been pointed at by @Van . Many in the US want to return to a state where the US does not rely on other nations. At the same time most, if not all, of our alies rely on the US.

The difference is the US can survive without those countries, but those countries cannot without the US.

I agree with @Van that a sovereign nation should not be dependent on another nation for its existence. Today, most are.

Odd that you would say the US can survive without the other nations. They clearly require major inputs from other countries just to exist but those in the US have been told for so long that they do not they actually believe it.

But then again the US could exist at about a 1900's level but not as a modern society.

 

[Ben1445]

63% of U.S. crude oil imports come from Canada

In perspective, 97% of Alberta’s oil exports go to the US. It is a different story when you see both sides.

 

[Silverhair]

In perspective, 97% of Alberta’s oil exports go to the US. It is a different story when you see both sides.

You are not telling me something I do not know. That is why we want to get a pipeline to the north coast and also to the east coast.

Canada has had a good relationship with the US but under Trum* that has become an untrustworthy one due to his erratic behaviour.

Now all we have to do is get rid of the Liberal government so we can let business do what it does best.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1100 GMT 5 am EST / 2 am PT

 

[Ben1445]

You are not telling me something I do not know. That is why we want to get a pipeline to the north coast and also to the east coast.

Canada has had a good relationship with the US but under Trum* that has become an untrustworthy one due to his erratic behaviour.

Now all we have to do is get rid of the Liberal government so we can let business do what it does best.

I didn’t figure it was something you didn’t know. It is just the side of the picture that deflates your position a bit.
It’s the side you didn’t say. I figured you knew it.

Untrustworthy? I think you misinterpret. Unstable? I’ll give you that. There is always uncertainty in life. Has Trump gone against the agreement he made? When he goes back on his own word I’ll give you untrustworthy. But you must be fair at the same time. If things change, as things do, expect adjustments one way or another. It doesn’t make people dishonest plainly on adjusting to the current state of affairs. It’s life.

 

[Silverhair]

I didn’t figure it was something you didn’t know. It is just the side of the picture that deflates your position a bit.
It’s the side you didn’t say. I figured you knew it.

Untrustworthy? I think you misinterpret. Unstable? I’ll give you that. There is always uncertainty in life. Has Trump gone against the agreement he made? When he goes back on his own word I’ll give you untrustworthy. But you must be fair at the same time. If things change, as things do, expect adjustments one way or another. It doesn’t make people dishonest plainly on adjusting to the current state of affairs. It’s life.

Let me see, why would the world see the US as untrustworthy. Perhaps because of the off the wall comments of Trum*. Threaten tariffs if he does not get his way, tariffs because a country signs a deal that he does not like. invade another country & kidnap the leader.

Agreements do not seem to mean anything to him.

I can understand why you will defend what he has done but he does not understand the rule of law or perhaps he just thinks it does not apply to him. In either case he has dismantled in one year what was gained over eighty years.

He thinks tariffs will make the US great again but the reality is that they only cost the US citizen money through higher prices.

 

[JonC]

Odd that you would say the US can survive without the other nations. They clearly require major inputs from other countries just to exist but those in the US have been told for so long that they do not they actually believe it.

But then again the US could exist at about a 1900's level but not as a modern society.

I think you misunderstood my statements.

The goal is to be ss self sufficient as possible. As it is now we do need imports. But there is not a single nation that the US is dependent upon.

There are materials, like tin, that the US imports because we do not have a high concentration (it would be very much cost prohibitive to rely on US tin).

Then there are elements like cobalt which Canada exports but is not mined significantly in the US because we can import it cheaper (and environmental concerns over mining).

My point is that the US could relatively easily survive without Canada, not that the US would maintain its economy without replacing Canadian imports should the relationship be severed all together. If the US stopped imports from Canada today then we would have to rely more on Asian nations.

Here is our reliance (main points):

1. Canada is our biggest supplier of imported crude oil. 64% of the oil we use is produced domestically while the rest is imported (with Canada supplying about 60% of imported oil). The US can meet 100% of its natural gas needs domestically.

2. The US is the largest investor in Canada.

3. Canada depends on the US for 74% of its exported trade. Canada is one of the largest importers of US products (the US depends on Canada for 16% of its exported trade).

4. Militarily Canada cannot defend itself against major conventional invasion but relies on the US military. Canada has a history of under funding its military while relying on the US to provide protection.

WHY BRING THIS UP?

1. The US and Canada are tied at the hip. Both benefit from the relationship. But the US is not dependent on Canada in the same sence that Canada is dependent on the US.

2. The "complaint" is that the relationship between the US and Canada has been a bit lopsided.

It has never legitimately been an issue of cutting off Canada, but rather establishing a more fair trade based on contribution rather than economic need.