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Putting the Spin on Spinoza

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To understand the Philosophy of Spinoza is to understand his core idea: “God is Nature", a single, infinite system where everything, including humans, is interconnected and governed by strict, rational laws, not a personal deity. True freedom comes from using reason to understand these laws, moving beyond uncontrolled emotions (affections) to achieve rational joy and inner peace. Spinoza rejected traditional religion's separate God, afterlife, and chosen people, viewing the universe as a determined, unified whole where everything happens out of necessity, not divine whim.
 
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Ben1445

Well-Known Member
To understand the Philosophy of Spinoza is to understand his core idea: “God is Nature", a single, infinite system where everything, including humans, is interconnected and governed by strict, rational laws, not a personal deity. True freedom comes from using reason to understand these laws, moving beyond uncontrolled emotions (affections) to achieve rational joy and inner peace. Spinoza rejected traditional religion's separate God, afterlife, and chosen people, viewing the universe as a determined, unified whole where everything happens out of necessity, not divine whim.
But God is not nature. God gave Himself to redeem us from sin.
Nature doesn’t do anything for us that God should not have the credit for.

Romans 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Nature doesn’t tell us anything. God does. We don’t sin damnably against nature, but against God.
 

Psalty

Member
To understand the Philosophy of Spinoza is to understand his core idea: “God is Nature", a single, infinite system where everything, including humans, is interconnected and governed by strict, rational laws, not a personal deity. True freedom comes from using reason to understand these laws, moving beyond uncontrolled emotions (affections) to achieve rational joy and inner peace. Spinoza rejected traditional religion's separate God, afterlife, and chosen people, viewing the universe as a determined, unified whole where everything happens out of necessity, not divine whim.
I loved reading Spinoza’s Ethics. He had a great mind, though I didnt agree with some of his premises.
For your reading pleasure: The Project Gutenberg E-text of The Ethics, by Benedict de Spinoza
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I loved reading Spinoza’s Ethics. He had a great mind, though I didnt agree with some of his premises.
For your reading pleasure: The Project Gutenberg E-text of The Ethics, by Benedict de Spinoza
Spinoza: The Substance of God


God would say:


Stop praying and giving yourself blows on your chest, what I want you to


do, is go out into the world and enjoy your life.


I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.


Stop going into those gloomy, dark and cold temples that you built


yourself, and that you call my home. My house is in the mountains, in the


forests, the rivers, the lakes, the beaches. That's where I live and express


all my love for you.


Stop blaming me for your miserable life. I never told you there was


anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner.


Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If


you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends,


in your son's eyes... you will find me in no book!


Stop being so scared. I do not judge you, nor criticise you, nor am I ever


angry with you - nothing bothers me - nor do I devise punishment. I am


pure love.


Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you, I


filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs,


inconsistencies of free will. How can I blame you if you respond to


something I put in you? How can I punish you for being as you are, if I'm


the one who made you?


Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who misbehave


for the rest of eternity? What kind of god can do that?


Respect your peers and don't do to others what you don't want for


yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that your alert


status is your guide.


Life is not a test, not a step on the way, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to


paradise. This life is the only thing there is, here and now and the only


thing you need.I have made you absolutely free, there are no prizes or punishments, no


sins or virtues, no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.


You are absolutely free to create in your life a Heaven or hell.


I couldn’t tell you if there's anything after this life but I can give you a tip.


Live as if there is not. As if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to


exist.


So, if there's nothing after, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I


gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved well


or not, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the


most? What did you learn?


Stop believing in me. To believe is to assume, guess, imagine. I don't


want you to believe in me, I want you to feel me when you kiss your


beloved, when you play with your little girl, when you love your dog, when


you bathe in the sea.


Stop praising me, what kind of egotistical God do you think I am?


I'm bored being praised. I'm tired of being thanked.


Do you feel grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your


relationships, the world around you. Do you feel overwhelmed? Express


your joy! That's the way to praise me.


Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been


taught about me. The only thing sure is that you are here, that you are


alive, that this world is full of wonders.


What do you need more miracles for? Why so many explanations?


Don’t look for me outside, you won’t find me. Find me inside... there I’m


beating in you.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Spinoza offered insights on life, nature, and happiness, suggesting that wisdom focuses on life rather than death and that happiness is inherent in virtue. He aimed to understand human actions rather than judge them. Notable quotes include “All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare.”, “Nature is satisfied with little; and if she is, I am also.”, and “Desire is the very essence of man.”.
A central theme is the identity of God and Nature, with God defined as an absolutely infinite substance. Spinoza believed everything exists within God. He felt that apparent chance stems from limited knowledge
 

easternstar

Active Member
To me, nature reflects the reality of both good and evil. It has beauty but also horror. I don't believe God and nature are the same. That is pantheism, which I do not hold to.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you reject the God of the Bible, does that make you an Atheist? If you create a god of your own making, are you not just another Atheist.

If you say there is no God of the Bible, are you a fool?

What did the Preacher teach? Love God and Enjoy Life. The corollary is you cannot do one, enjoy life, without the other...
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To me, nature reflects the reality of both good and evil. It has beauty but also horror. I don't believe God and nature are the same. That is pantheism, which I do not hold to.
Who created nature? Who created you?

So tell me your thinking process…do flowers decide to bloom; does water decide to be wet; does fire decide to burn; do birds decide to fly… you get my point I’m sure. So if we can agree, the function & order of life is because of G-D’s choices ie G-D is the creator & He handles everything He creates … and everything is interwoven. So to dismiss it as mere pantheism is missing vital points in describing G-D’s purpose.
 

Ascetic X

Active Member
Spinoza: The Substance of God


God would say:

Stop praying …

Stop going into those gloomy, dark and cold temples that you built …

Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures … you will find me in no book!

Stop being so scared. I do not judge you…

Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive…

… there are no prizes or punishments…

I couldn’t tell you if there's anything after this life …

Stop believing in me…

Stop praising me …

I'm bored being praised. I'm tired of being thanked…
This clump of quotes from Spinoza consists of a litany of lies spawned by the darkness, our enemy. All of it contradicts the Bible as it vainly attempts to sound jolly and rational, appealing to Enlightenment blasphemers and mockers of Christian faith. I regret letting it pass through my mind.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This clump of quotes from Spinoza consists of a litany of lies spawned by the darkness, our enemy. All of it contradicts the Bible as it vainly attempts to sound jolly and rational, appealing to Enlightenment blasphemers and mockers of Christian faith. I regret letting it pass through my mind.
Sorry,what are you babbling on about? Perhaps you should study it before you comment. I can help by suggesting reading materials if you wish… only you won’t do it because ( nope not going to engage) … I will just put you on ignore. Done.
 

easternstar

Active Member
Who created nature? Who created you?

So tell me your thinking process…do flowers decide to bloom; does water decide to be wet; does fire decide to burn; do birds decide to fly… you get my point I’m sure. So if we can agree, the function & order of life is because of G-D’s choices ie G-D is the creator & He handles everything He creates … and everything is interwoven. So to dismiss it as mere pantheism is missing vital points in describing G-D’s purpose.
I believe God is in nature, ansd nature reflects God. But I also believe God is above or beyond nature. So, I believe in God's immanence in the creation but also His transcendence. I don't think God and nature are one and the same.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe God is in nature, ansd nature reflects God. But I also believe God is above or beyond nature. So, I believe in God's immanence in the creation but also His transcendence. I don't think God and nature are one and the same.
So then does G-D transcend human kind? I believe that Christ is both G-D and Man (both). The Christ proves that.
 

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
Sorry,what are you babbling on about? Perhaps you should study it before you comment. I can help by suggesting reading materials if you wish… only you won’t do it because ( nope not going to engage) … I will just put you on ignore. Done.
What @Ascetic X said is absolutely true. If you put everyone on ignore who points that out it still remains true. What in the world is the matter with you?
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DI don’t buy thatWhat @Ascetic X said is absolutely true. If you put everyone on ignore who points that out it still remains true. What in the world is the matter with you?
Ahh no, not you again. And no he doesn’t have absolute truth. BTW, neither do you… and get this… I can put you on ignore also and it will give me great pleasure to do so… bye
But God is not nature. God gave Himself to redeem us from sin.b
Nature doesn’t do anything for us that God should not have the credit for.

Romans 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Nature doesn’t tell us anything. God does. We don’t sin damnably against nature, but against God.
and so humans do not have God in them? And who created & controls nature? Ahh, I don’t buy that. And should I sin, then I sin against the world and therefore against myself and ultimately against G-D. Lastly I’m not afraid of G-D… You see I’ve been chosen before the foundations of the world, elected as a child of G-D and so me and the Father are one and Christ is my savior who has cleared my sins with His blood. So whatever I do in this temporal world is between me and the Father… but I also gots a savior who died for me…wasn’t that the divine plan? Isn’t that what your Bible tells you? My belief system says yes. And that’s what matters to me, And if you disagree that’s fine by me, argue all you want only don’t start running your mouth by questioning my salvation… in here that’s suicidal.
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe God is in nature, ansd nature reflects God. But I also believe God is above or beyond nature. So, I believe in God's immanence in the creation but also His transcendence. I don't think God and nature are one and the same.
My sainted mother taught me many things I still take with me. One of her statement to me when I used the word “think” as in I think, I thought etc., is identifying it as a weak and subjective word.. it could even get you killed. Rather than think she stated, you either know something or you don’t know something… at best, using “I think”is only guessing.

To return to the topic at hand, I definitely see G-D in nature… in a sunset, in a trout stream I fish in, in the birth of a child, a new born (anything), in my grandchildren, in bees making honey, In watching the stars at night, in playing with my dog blah blah, so yea, I see the creation being the handy-work of the Creator. And that gives me joy.
 
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Mikoo

Active Member
Ahh no, not you again. And no he doesn’t have absolute truth. BTW, neither do you… and get this… I can put you on ignore also and it will give me great pleasure to do so… bye

and so humans do not have God in them? And who created & controls nature? Ahh, I don’t buy that. And should I sin, then I sin against the world and therefore against myself and ultimately against G-D. Lastly I’m not afraid of G-D… You see I’ve been chosen before the foundations of the world, elected as a child of G-D and so me and the Father are one and Christ is my savior who has cleared my sins with His blood. So whatever I do in this temporal world is between me and the Father… but I also gots a savior who died for me…wasn’t that the divine plan? Isn’t that what your Bible tells you? My belief system says yes. And that’s what matters to me, And if you disagree that’s fine by me, argue all you want only don’t start running your mouth by questioning my salvation… in here that’s suicidal.
How do you know this?
 
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