Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Grace through faith. Do you actually think there is another way BF?
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Thoughts on Justification
- Thread starter Martin Marprelate
- Start date
Grace through faith. Do you actually think there is another way BF?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So you do not like it when someone points out your errors.
Just trying to help you grow in your faith Martin.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Conversion is being born of God. We are changed from unsaved to saved. From not being Children of God to being children of God.
What kind of bible are you reading KY?
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Rom 5:9,10 NKJV
Heb 9:22 RSV Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Heb 9:22 RSV Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
according to Rom 5:19 how shall they many be made righteous?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your a broken record BF. So once again I will ignore you until you actually make some logical comment.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
according to Rom 5:19 how shall the many be made righteous? Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Bingo
The very following:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:8
Heb 5:7,8 YLT who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,
The obedience of faith - The faith of, see Heb above, Son, Jesus Christ. See also: Gal 2:16 KJV Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Hebrews 12:2 ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν
Looking into the, of the faith author and perfector, Jesus
IMHO justified by faith has nothing to what the one justified thinks, believes or anything else.
IMHO people believe because God calls them unto belief by having given them the Spirit of Truth, because of the faith of Jesus Christ.
See Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith?
3:14 that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. -----
definite article ---- the faith of Christ in dying for our sins.
Acts 2:33 YLT at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
That is/was the path of the Spirit - From the Father to the Son to the first-fruit of the Spirit R8:23 as the following James 1:18 YLT having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats a good point about the definite article in Gal 3:14
Did you know theres a definite article before Faith in Eph 2:8 ?
τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As we see in Rom 5:19 the reason we sin is because sin was brought in to the world through the actions of Adam. "through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners"
We see the contrast in that through Jesus we can be saved "through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous"
We all sin because that is our nature but we are not all saved. So from this we can see that Jesus is the path to our salvation.
If we were saved just because of Christ's obedience then the whole world would be saved. So there has to be a reason that some are saved and others not.
Our faith does not save use but without faith we will not be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So while the desire of God and the reason He sent His son was so the the whole world could be saved;
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Scripture shows us that we are all condemned but it also shows us that we can all be son of God through faith in the risen son.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
The obedience of Jesus in going to the cross made our salvation possible, we are only saved by the grace of God because of our obedience in trusting in the risen Christ..
Yes I knew that.
I'm glad to see that you now believe in particular atonement.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
How do you get that from what I have written.
The bible is clear that Christ was the propitiation for the whole world, so general atonement is found in scripture.
What we do see is salvation through faith in the risen Christ Jesus.
Romans 9 is about God choosing the line through which the Messiah would come and how salvation for both the Jews and the Greeks would be through Him.
It is sad that the foundation stone should be to any a stone of stumbling, a rock of offense, as He is still to the Jews and non-Jews. Those who continue to reject Him will be lost but those who will freely trust in Him will be saved.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
We are to have faith in the risen Christ.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Yes our sins have been covered but if we do not trust in the risen Christ we are still lost.
We were not saved at the cross.
Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith,...
Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth...
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead...
The atonement makes salvation possible but we are saved because we believe.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Okay correct
Incorrect and unequal
It should read " through the obedience of one man the many shall be made righteous, Righteousness was brought into the world by the actions of Jesus Christ.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So how would you understand the faith in Eph 2:8 ? Just asking, you dont have to answer if you dont want to.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What incorrect or unequal BF.
through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners
through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous
You make all kinds of pronouncements but give on supporting comments for your conclusion let alone supporting scripture.
It can be read as either BF
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. NASB
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. NKJV
Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. BSB
Rom 5:19 For just as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. NRSV
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one the many will be made righteous. USAV
And in all cases if the person does not freely believe then they will/shall not be saved and thus will/shall not be made righteous.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Read it I pointed it out
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well I see that you are back to your usual style so until you actually make a substantive comment I will just ignore you again.
@Silverhair stated in post 94 We were not saved at the cross. I say in the span of three days and three nights we were saved through the faith.
The faith was the obedience of Jesus unto death, even the death of the cross. That is why we can be justified, in Jesus.
Because Jesus the Son, learned H5:7,8 became Phil2:8 obedient unto death, shed the life of him in the blood of him, poured out his soul unto death, for our justification, God the Father raised him from the dead. Rom 4:24,25 also Phil 2:8,9 See Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
I believe, "the faith," equals have, faith of God. The Father had faith the Son would give his life's blood and the Son had faith the Father would save him out of death. Rom 3:25 and Heb 5:7,8
I believe, people believe, because God calls them and gives them the Spirit unto belief of truth.