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Consigned under Disobedience

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 11:32 has in interesting turn of phrase. Here is the NASB rendering of the verse:


For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.​

The Greek word, translated above as "shut up" means to catch, or enclose, or metaphorically to consign something somewhere.

Next, the verse tells us just "where," into disobedience. The Greek word translated above as "disobedience" refers to an obstinate refusal to accept Divine will. By nature we are prideful, we know best, kind of folks. We can humble ourselves, but not without difficulty.

But the key question is "why did this "disability" or bent of character facilitate God showing mercy to all of humanity, both Jews and Gentiles? To answer that question we must look to the context of the verse!

Of course the Jews had the Law and the Prophets, disclosing God's promised Messiah and edicts for how they were to live their lives. On the other hand, the Gentiles had no such "special revelation" but did have an appreciation of God by what He had made. Rather than honoring Him, they created out of their imaginations, all sorts of "gods" that fit their fancy.

Paul describes the whole sequence in Romans 11:28 to 32. Because the Jews rejected the gospel, especially that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Paul was told to take the gospel to the Gentiles. Thus by their ( the Jews) obstinate rejection of the divine will, mercy was shown to the Gentiles. The idea of "show mercy to all" is that of God granting opportunities, even to those unworthy, of benefits, particularly of salvation by Christ, the Messiah. And because the Jews would become aware of God's blessings being bestowed upon the Gentiles, jealousy would drive some Jews back into God's provision for all.
 

Ascetic X

Active Member
Romans 11:32 has in interesting turn of phrase. Here is the NASB rendering of the verse:


For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.

The Greek word, translated above as "shut up" means to catch, or enclose, or metaphorically to consign something somewhere.

Next, the verse tells us just "where," into disobedience. The Greek word translated above as "disobedience" refers to an obstinate refusal to accept Divine will. By nature we are prideful, we know best, kind of folks. We can humble ourselves, but not without difficulty.
I have been humbled a lot recently. I am not sure if I can ever humble myself.

Humbleness, the suppression of ego and pridefulness, seems to be a virtue that God performs upon us. I feel humble when tragedy or affliction strikes, making me see how feeble I am in the flesh and how much I need God.

Or when I think all my ideas are correct, then something happens that shows me I need to abandon or modify a belief, generally about myself.

Other times, I feel humble when I read the Bible and get convicted about something in my life that is not right.

Becoming humble thus seems like a quality that is imposed upon me from outside myself, not a virtue that I can manufacture on my own.

It ties in with the good soil parable. Can we on our own initiative make the soil of our hearts good and productive of much fruit? Or does it require an external gardener, named Jesus, to cultivate, irrigate, add nutrients, and remove the weeds and rocks?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have been humbled a lot recently. I am not sure if I can ever humble myself.

Humbleness, the suppression of ego and pridefulness, seems to be a virtue that God performs upon us. I feel humble when tragedy or affliction strikes, making me see how feeble I am in the flesh and how much I need God.

Or when I think all my ideas are correct, then something happens that shows me I need to abandon or modify a belief, generally about myself.

Other times, I feel humble when I read the Bible and get convicted about something in my life that is not right.

Becoming humble thus seems like a quality that is imposed upon me from outside myself, not a virtue that I can manufacture on my own.

It ties in with the good soil parable. Can we on our own initiative make the soil of our hearts good and productive of much fruit? Or does it require an external gardener, named Jesus, to cultivate, irrigate, add nutrients, and remove the weeds and rocks?
Certainly the information and experience comes from outside ourselves that points us in the direction of humility. But, scripture seems quite clear, at least to my understanding, that we do indeed have the capacity to recognize and admit to our errors, our sins, and redirect ourselves toward better behavior. When we choose not you yield, that is our innate nature of prideful obstinacy

Consider these verses:
Matthew 18:4. James 4:6, and 1 Peter 5:5. These verses, it seems to me, teach we take the action to submit to God's direction.
 

Ascetic X

Active Member
Certainly the information and experience comes from outside ourselves that points us in the direction of humility. But, scripture seems quite clear, at least to my understanding, that we do indeed have the capacity to recognize and admit to our errors, our sins, and redirect ourselves toward better behavior. When we choose not you yield, that is our innate nature of prideful obstinacy

Consider these verses:
Matthew 18:4. James 4:6, and 1 Peter 5:5. These verses, it seems to me, teach we take the action to submit to God's direction.
Yes, and the Bible does explain what humbleness consists of, crucifying the flesh, putting others first, washing their feet, etc., so we can make ourselves humble by obeying these instructions.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes, and the Bible does explain what humbleness consists of, crucifying the flesh, putting others first, washing their feet, etc., so we can make ourselves humble by obeying these instructions.
I agree we can appear to be humble by submitting to the behaviors that indicate humility. But that does not mean we have humbled ourselves. That could instead be acting like we are "white-washed" on the outside, but still full of prideful bones on the inside. But we cannot fool God and hopefully ourselves, if we still have a grip on reality. If we really are "poor of spirit" depending on God rather than ourselves, we have actually humbled ourselves.
 

Ascetic X

Active Member
I agree we can appear to be humble by submitting to the behaviors that indicate humility. But that does not mean we have humbled ourselves. That could instead be acting like we are "white-washed" on the outside, but still full of prideful bones on the inside. But we cannot fool God and hopefully ourselves, if we still have a grip on reality. If we really are "poor of spirit" depending on God rather than ourselves, we have actually humbled ourselves.
Excellent points!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Can we on our own initiative make the soil of our hearts good and productive of much fruit? Or does it require an external gardener, named Jesus, to cultivate, irrigate, add nutrients, and remove the weeds and rocks?"

No, to be receptive to God directions does NOT require supernatural enablement by Irresistible or Prevenient Grace.

Can God's human witnesses, prepare the "soil" of the lost by tilling the ground? Yes As the Boy Scouts say, "Be Prepared" and so we must prepare the soil such that when we plant, or help in the planting, we till the ground, removing hindrances such as weeds and false doctrines that may prevent growth. Others water, or nurture to provide the environment akin to Soil #4.

James 3:18 interpretive translation:
And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown for the purpose of bringing peace by those who help bring forth peace.

We must plant "good seed" the pure gospel, not contaminated with errant or extraneous views. And before that, we must prepare the soil, the lost must know how much we care, before they will care what we know.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 11:32 (ESV) For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.


I wonder if the phrase might be related to the Hebrew word, haram, frequently used in the book of Joshua, meaning "devoted to destruction"

* Exodus 22:20 (ESV) “Whoever sacrifices to any god, other than the Lord alone, shall be devoted to destruction.

* Deuteronomy 20:17 (ESV) but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded,

* Joshua 6:17a (ESV) And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction.

Rob
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 11:32 (ESV) For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

I wonder if the phrase might be related to the Hebrew word, haram, frequently used in the book of Joshua, meaning "devoted to destruction"

* Exodus 22:20 (ESV) “Whoever sacrifices to any god, other than the Lord alone, shall be devoted to destruction.
* Deuteronomy 20:17 (ESV) but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded,
* Joshua 6:17a (ESV) And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction.

Rob
I do not think so. Under the OT meaning, they were to be utterly destroyed, whereas under the New Covenant, the consignment was for the purpose of facilitating redemption. As a side note, "devoted" carries positive baggage, as we use the word devotion as an aspect of love. So perhaps a better translation of the OT word would be "sentenced to extermination."
 
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