Slavery Numbers

[OLD SARGE]

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[Van]

I think this is another attempt to make enslavement condoned and promoted in America less of an abomination.

Christians are to do unto others as they would have other do unto them. Almost nobody wants to be physically or sexually abused.

We have one race of humans. We all do not look alike, or have the same gifts. But racism is wrong, no matter how much lipstick is put on that pig.

 

[OLD SARGE]

I think this is another attempt to make enslavement condoned and promoted in America less of an abomination.

Christians are to do unto others as they would have other do unto them. Almost nobody wants to be physically or sexually abused.

We have one race of humans. We all do not look alike, or have the same gifts. But racism is wrong, no matter how much lipstick is put on that pig.

No, there are so many lies, myths and such as well as a constant pointing to slavery to call for reparations to imply there is still systematic racism.

 

[Van]

No, there are so many lies, myths and such as well as a constant pointing to slavery to call for reparations to imply there is still systematic racism.

I disagree, the calls for reparations are simply another form of racist nonsense from the demonic school of two wrongs make a right.

There were about 4 million, not 400,000 slaves living in the United States just before our civil war to free the slaves. People were not only kidnapped into enslavement, many were "born" into enslavement.

 

[OLD SARGE]

I disagree, the calls for reparations are simply another form of racist nonsense from the demonic school of two wrongs make a right.

There were about 4 million, not 400,000 slaves living in the United States just before our civil war to free the slaves. People were not only kidnapped into enslavement, many were "born" into enslavement.

I am in agreement with you. I just did not say it clearly, I reckon.

 

[OLD SARGE]

I disagree, the calls for reparations are simply another form of racist nonsense from the demonic school of two wrongs make a right.

There were about 4 million, not 400,000 slaves living in the United States just before our civil war to free the slaves. People were not only kidnapped into enslavement, many were "born" into enslavement.

The 400,000 were the ones shipped in. The fact that they could reproduce as quickly as they did has to speak to better care being given than what is consensus. In an age where infant and maternal mortality was high as well as many children dying before maturity there had to be a better environment that what we have heard. Indeed, most slaves weighed at least 10 pounds heavier than Northern White people meaning rations must have been beyond bare minimum.

 

[Van]

The 400,000 were the ones shipped in. The fact that they could reproduce as quickly as they did has to speak to better care being given than what is consensus. In an age where infant and maternal mortality was high as well as many children dying before maturity there had to be a better environment that what we have heard. Indeed, most slaves weighed at least 10 pounds heavier than Northern White people meaning rations must have been beyond bare minimum.

Nope, the enslaved women were as slave makers. That is tantamount to sexual abuse. Recall the line, "there are blue eyed blacks in every Ghetto in America. "Black women’s childbearing became a centerpiece of the system of chattel slavery."

Slave breeding in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Reynolds]

I think this is another attempt to make enslavement condoned and promoted in America less of an abomination.

Christians are to do unto others as they would have other do unto them. Almost nobody wants to be physically or sexually abused.

We have one race of humans. We all do not look alike, or have the same gifts. But racism is wrong, no matter how much lipstick is put on that pig.

Slavery existed throughout history and throughout the world. There is nothing unique about slavery in the United States. I am native American. My people were butchered and not enslaved. I say butchered was worse. That was then. This is now. I'm long past over it. I think the segment of the black race who is not ",over it" needs to get over it

 

[OLD SARGE]

Nope, the enslaved women were as slave makers. That is tantamount to sexual abuse. Recall the line, "there are blue eyed blacks in every Ghetto in America. "Black women’s childbearing became a centerpiece of the system of chattel slavery."

Slave breeding in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They were going to reproduce anyway. I do not think they were forced to reproduce. I am sure it was encouraged and some women were raped, but people are going to be people.

 

[Ascetic X]

Slavery existed throughout history and throughout the world. There is nothing unique about slavery in the United States. I am native American. My people were butchered and not enslaved. I say butchered was worse. That was then. This is now. I'm long past over it. I think the segment of the black race who is not ",over it" needs to get over it

Native Americans were genocided, re-educated / brainwashed, deceived by broken treaties, poisoned with alcohol, relocated to distant reservations, and forced to severely limit self-sufficient hunting and fishing.

 

[OLD SARGE]

Native Americans were genocided, re-educated / brainwashed, deceived by broken treaties, poisoned with alcohol, relocated to distant reservations, and forced to severely limit self-sufficient hunting and fishing.

Mostly because the 5 Civilized Tribes fought for the South. Sherman wanted to genocide the Southerners so that attitude was easilu transferred to the Native Americans.

 

[Van]

Slavery existed throughout history and throughout the world. There is nothing unique about slavery in the United States. I am native American. My people were butchered and not enslaved. I say butchered was worse. That was then. This is now. I'm long past over it. I think the segment of the black race who is not ",over it" needs to get over it

Two wrongs do not make a right. America Slavery was horrific, anti-Christian, depravity. Pointing to something worse is non-germane.

BTW, I agree the treatment of the native peoples who occupied the land now called America was horrific, anti-Christian depravity.

Last point, yes, grifters today exploit America's past depravities, to destroy our culture of religious and economic freedom. If you were taught in school, orange man bad, or black man bad, or white man bad, that is as anti-Christian as you can get!

Recall the song of the civil war, "as Christ died to make men holy, let us die to make men free...."

 

[Van]

They were going to reproduce anyway. I do not think they were forced to reproduce. I am sure it was encouraged and some women were raped, but people are going to be people.

Go figure, importing slaves was blocked, so do you resupply for those enslaved? You get as many pregnant as you need! All these efforts to excuse those condoning slavery shows a lack of repentance. If I had been raised in the South, I might be in that category, but I was not, and my ancestors fought and died for the North.

 

[OLD SARGE]

Go figure, importing slaves was blocked, so do you resupply for those enslaved? You get as many pregnant as you need! All these efforts to excuse those condoning slavery shows a lack of repentance. If I had been raised in the South, I might be in that category, but I was not, and my ancestors fought and died for the North.

I was raised in the North. I have ancestors on both sides. Slavery was bad, but the North is not without its sins. That son was song by murderers, rapists and thieves. Often the slaves were conscripted to fight and were the first ones into the battle. At home soldiers were raping their wives. An 18 yr old boy was executed for taking down the American flag. Beast Butler told his troops if a woman was outside after curfew they could be treated as open game. A black man in SC ran out and hugged his liberator who kicked him back and killed him saying. "We'll have none of that." The army of the liberators was segregated for over 100 years and they were were the ones who gave blankets with small pox to the Native Americans and processed the Trail of Tears basically because the Five Civilized Tribes fought for the South.

 

[Van]

I was raised in the North. I have ancestors on both sides. Slavery was bad, but the North is not without its sins. That son was song by murderers, rapists and thieves. Often the slaves were conscripted to fight and were the first ones into the battle. At home soldiers were raping their wives. An 18 yr old boy was executed for taking down the American flag. Beast Butler told his troops if a woman was outside after curfew they could be treated as open game. A black man in SC ran out and hugged his liberator who kicked him back and killed him saying. "We'll have none of that." The army of the liberators was segregated for over 100 years and they were were the ones who gave blankets with small pox to the Native Americans and processed the Trail of Tears basically because the Five Civilized Tribes fought for the South.

No one has ever said or suggested the North was without sins. And the premise, two wrongs make a right is demonic. You do NOT excuse bad behavior by pointing to someone else with bad behavior.

Turning now to the Small Pox Blanket hoax, let me set the record straight:

In about 1763 officers in the US Army purposely gave infected blankets to wage biological war upon the native people, led by Chief Pontiac near Pittsburgh. The deaths caused by this, now classified war crime, are said to be about 100. None of that is in dispute.

However, a second claim, that the Small Pox Epidemic of 18:37-1838, that wiped out tens of thousands of native peoples in North Dakota, was caused by US Army doctors ordering infected blankets from St Louis to be used to perpetrate a genocide upon the native peoples. This claim has been determined to be fabricated by Ward L. Churchill. The actual pandemic was caused by a steam boat, called the St. Peter, infected with Small Pox, that stopped at Fort Clark, North Dakota. And as a sidebar, the Federal government had not and did not take effective action to address the vulnerability of native peoples.

 

[OLD SARGE]

No one has ever said or suggested the North was without sins. And the premise, two wrongs make a right is demonic. You do NOT excuse bad behavior by pointing to someone else with bad behavior.

Turning now to the Small Pox Blanket hoax, let me set the record straight:

In about 1763 officers in the US Army purposely gave infected blankets to wage biological war upon the native people, led by Chief Pontiac near Pittsburgh. The deaths caused by this, now classified war crime, are said to be about 100. None of that is in dispute.

However, a second claim, that the Small Pox Epidemic of 18:37-1838, that wiped out tens of thousands of native peoples in North Dakota, was caused by US Army doctors ordering infected blankets from St Louis to be used to perpetrate a genocide upon the native peoples. This claim has been determined to be fabricated by Ward L. Churchill. The actual pandemic was caused by a steam boat, called the St. Peter, infected with Small Pox, that stopped at Fort Clark, North Dakota. And as a sidebar, the Federal government had not and did not take effective action to address the vulnerability of native peoples.

Never said two wrongs make a right, but the sins of the North are seldom discussed. Not excusing the South, but Northerners have never gotten over winning the war that was not primarily about slavery or Blacks would not have been segregated if Christian love and concern was that strong. When I first got on the Internet back in the early days as soon I told people that I was in Texas all I got the the "inbred, redneck, bigot" not knowing I was from PA. We are now basically in a cold continuation of that war due to faulty reporting of the war and a smug self-righteousness.

Thanks for the information about the smallpox. I have never heard anything like that before.

 

[Van]

Never said two wrongs make a right, but the sins of the North are seldom discussed. Not excusing the South, but Northerners have never gotten over winning the war that was not primarily about slavery or Blacks would not have been segregated if Christian love and concern was that strong. When I first got on the Internet back in the early days as soon I told people that I was in Texas all I got the the "inbred, redneck, bigot" not knowing I was from PA. We are now basically in a cold continuation of that war due to faulty reporting of the war and a smug self-righteousness.

Thanks for the information about the smallpox. I have never heard anything like that before.

Your claims are utterly false, without foundation in truth.

You attempted to shift discussion to the North, to avoid discussion of the horrific depravity of the South's support for human slavery.

Next, you did not acknowledge the fiction you presented concerning the US Army and giving infected blankets that caused the outbreak of small pox in South Dakota.

The Civil war was primarily about ending Slavery in the South. Just read the Succession documents.

Again, the failures of the North before and after the war are manifest, but non-germane to the culpability of the South.

Lastly, you shift from addressing Enslavement to an ad hominem against those telling you the truth.

 

[Reynolds]

I keep seeing the "Two wrongs don't make a right " argument here. It is not applicable here because this is still in the time period where the entire world was engaged in or had very recently been engaged in the wrong. There was a wrong, but the United States was , like the rest of the world, engaged in the wrong. You do not judge historical figures by our morals. You judge historical figures by the morals of their moment in history.

 

[Ascetic X]

I keep seeing the "Two wrongs don't make a right " argument here. It is not applicable here because this is still in the time period where the entire world was engaged in or had very recently been engaged in the wrong. There was a wrong, but the United States was , like the rest of the world, engaged in the wrong. You do not judge historical figures by our morals. You judge historical figures by the morals of their moment in history.

Morality is not dependent upon time or historical period. That the US and the rest of the world were engaged in the wrong, doesn’t mean we should not judge them. “Everybody’s doing it” is no justification for an evil practice.

If the morals of a moment in history would prevail, abolitionists would not have succeeded in ending slavery. The golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated, is universal and timeless.

Christian opposition to slavery, largely driven by Quakers, Anglicans, and Evangelicals, was foundational to the 18th and 19th-century abolitionist movements, viewing the practice as a profound moral sin against God. Key figures like John Woolman, Benjamin Lay, and William Wilberforce fought against it, citing biblical equality and the Golden Rule.

 

[Van]

I keep seeing the "Two wrongs don't make a right " argument here. It is not applicable here because this is still in the time period where the entire world was engaged in or had very recently been engaged in the wrong. There was a wrong, but the United States was , like the rest of the world, engaged in the wrong. You do not judge historical figures by our morals. You judge historical figures by the morals of their moment in history.

Good Grief, it IS applicable, pointing out that other than the Slave Advocating South, were depraved is totally non-germane. We are to compare ourselves to Christ, as Christians, and recognize comparing ourselves to other sinners is an argument straight from the father of lies.