God's Wisdom versus Earthly, Sensual, and Demonic Wisdom about Instrumental Music

[Ben1445]

"Zappa celebrated the tone of a “good ol’ distorted electric guitar,” calling it a “universe of sound that transcends the actual noise that is coming out. It just says something that no other instrument says. It has emotional content that goes beyond other instruments. And nothing is more blasphemous than a properly played distorted guitar. It is capable of making blasphemous noises.”

The avant-garde rocker went on to describe guitar tones as “extremely evil-sounding” and “smutty,” adding that he believed the best guitar playing matched speech patterns, not scales. “If you listen to a guy playing nice, neat scale patterns and things like that, no matter how skillful he is in making his stuff land on the beat, you always hear it as music. Capital ‘M’ music. If you want to get beyond music into emotional content, you have to break through that and just talk on your instrument.”

I get a kick out of some Christians who show animosity towards a fundamentalist who dares to criticize rock music when in fact the smart guys who produced it agree and brag that they know exactly what they are doing. The above is from Frank Zappa. If you want to read some other informative stuff on this just read Alan Bloom from "The Closing of the American Mind". Although coming from the opposite direction from Bloom, and from @Scripture More Accurately, Zappa agreed that rock music had a specific sound, a sound designed to communicate something, often evil, and that it had a powerful ability to influence the mind.

As Christians we tend to be naive and we shouldn't feel bad about that. I remember reading where someone was laughing at Christians at a wedding celebration all singing "YMCA", not realizing at all what they were singing about. My only point is that we do the best we can and try to use some discernment balanced with tolerance for other people's backgrounds and preferences. But I just notice that we seem quick nowadays to rip into a fundamentalist for not being tolerant of other music but don't seem to sense any need to be tolerant of the fundamentalist who has a different view. But that's the way "tolerance" works nowadays I guess.

I am aware of what the world is doing with music. Not only because I can see it, but as you have said, they say it.

But I am talking about the expression through the instrument vs. the physical instrument.
I have been in church’s where a guitar would never be played but people forget that it was the fill in instrument for the mouse chewed organ the first time Silent Night was played in church.
I will again give you that it was not an electric guitar, there was very little electric at the time. (Mainly used in lightning.)
It is the inner man that is judged. It is not whether or not you wash your hands.

 

[Charlie24]

This is not the best example of God rejecting music but it's one that I can remember where God rejects the music for a particular reason.

In Amos 5:21-24 God says that He hates their feast days and the burnt offerings and He will not hear their music and songs any longer.

The problem was the object of their faith was not in the sacrifice that represented Christ, their faith was in the ritual and not where it should have been. This was a long standing error of Israel that caused them many hardships with the Lord.

I realize that in some rock beat songs faith can be realized, the problem is that it won't remain there, it intensifies to the point of comparison with the Jews eventually losing the purpose in the object of faith. It not only effects the worship but also what is being preached that draws man to Christ. The atmosphere changes, but it's not immediately, it works slowly while progressing.

We've all seen it happen where over time the rock beat reaches a new level and slowly but surly the true meaning of the song and music are lost and God rejects it. Just the way it happened with Israel in their sacrifices.

Call it overkill, call it whatever you like, but we "nip it in the bud" and never give it a footing in our Church.

 

[DaveXR650]

Call it overkill, call it whatever you like, but we "nip it in the bud" and never give it a footing in our Church.

It may be overkill, and you may mess up and hurt some good people's feelings. But you have a right, (You or whoever is in charge) and a responsibility to use wisdom and keep watch over the flock. The problem is that there are multiple things going on in these situations. People who can't stand certain music may indeed be narrow minded or legalistic. Or they may be wanting to avoid particular temptations that plagued them before they were saved and they don't want to be near the old life style. I don't think the exact music style is a big deal to most people. Most churches mix traditional and contemporary music and try to bless a maximum number of people without offending anyone too much. But I have noticed that there is very little effort to encourage those who only like contemporary music to see the error of their ways and be more open minded towards hymns - that is only for the one's on the other spectrum.

 

[Charlie24]

It may be overkill, and you may mess up and hurt some good people's feelings. But you have a right, (You or whoever is in charge) and a responsibility to use wisdom and keep watch over the flock. The problem is that there are multiple things going on in these situations. People who can't stand certain music may indeed be narrow minded or legalistic. Or they may be wanting to avoid particular temptations that plagued them before they were saved and they don't want to be near the old life style. I don't think the exact music style is a big deal to most people. Most churches mix traditional and contemporary music and try to bless a maximum number of people without offending anyone too much. But I have noticed that there is very little effort to encourage those who only like contemporary music to see the error of their ways and be more open minded towards hymns - that is only for the one's on the other spectrum.

It started out with Christian rock concerts. Just as the Jews got caught up in the ritual, the performing of the ritual, Christians got caught up in the popular rock beat. Very few if any go to these concerts for a spiritual blessing, but rather a physical blessing, as maybe Bon Jovi or some of those other bands.

Then it started creeping into the Churches with their own rag tag bands playing the same stuff. It always intensifies from one single song to the next, until it reaches a point of rejection. But to each his own, I choose to separate my self from it altogether, I can't find any spiritual blessing in it, I've tried and it's not there.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You are just blabbering and jacking people around.

You keep evading the question about which musical instruments are occult or evil. You must derive pleasure from being vague and repeating yourself over and over, imparting zero insights or wisdom, just baiting people to interact with you.

Your absurd, non-informative statements include: “it is not possible for ordinary humans to explain specifically and exhaustively what makes certain musical instruments sinful beyond saying that those musical instruments that have been made with earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom are evil instruments. No human who does not have supernatural knowledge that humans cannot have apart from either divine revelation or involvement in wicked occult activities can explain to you in any detail how and why demonic things are demonic.”

Since you refuse to name a single “evil occult demonic musical instruments”, you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. I bet you think a kazoo, banjo, saxophone, or thumb piano is in this category.

How long will you play this game?

Your comments are harsh, unedifying, and factually untrue. You have made wrong statements about me and my character. You have falsely accused me of doing things that are unworthy of any believer who fears God.

I am not "blabbering and jacking people around." Although I can make a good guess at what it means, I do not even know for sure what "jacking people around" means, and I have no interest in finding out what that phrase actually means.

I am not answering any question that I believe would be unprofitable to answer. From much past experience, once a discussion like this is allowed to become specific, the entire discussion is hijacked into human opinions about many things instead of focused on what God has actually said.

It is regrettable that you appear to think more highly of yourself than you should when it comes to your ability to know and understand what things are truly demonic and why they are demonic.

Whether or not *you think* that I know what I am talking about does not justify the statements that you have made and the tone that you have used in these comments.

I am not playing any game. This subject is very important, and playing games is something that I never do in discussing any subject because I fear God and believe what he has said about our having to give an account someday for everything that we have said.

May God make His grace abound to you so that you will not make such unedifying and unfitting remarks in the future.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

But again, the unclean thing is unclean because of its use. There were images in the temple. Why was that okay? There were ornate works in the temple. There are religious groups that think that copying anything is making an image of something and is sinful. So all cameras would be used for wicked purposes. Missionary prayer cards would be sinful to use. We would be in lots of trouble.

There are absolutely things that I don’t and won’t own because of how other people use them. But that doesn’t mean I would be sinful if I ever saw, touched, heard, or even owned one.
Suppose you inherited an estate that had one of these things. Do you superstitiously never touch it? Or does “touch not” mean something more than “the outside of the cup?” Should we not be concerned with the inside?

No, they are not unclean things just because of their use. Whatever images and ornate works were in the temple were there because God commanded them to be made and to be in the temple.

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I get a kick out of some Christians who show animosity towards a fundamentalist who dares to criticize rock music when in fact the smart guys who produced it agree and brag that they know exactly what they are doing.

I appreciate your desire to be helpful in what you have said. I would like to make clear that this thread is not just about rock music or any other kind of music from *American Christian* history. Evil musics of evil occultists have existed in all parts of the world long before there were any Christians of any kind in the US.

 

[Ben1445]

No, they are not unclean things just because of their use. Whatever images and ornate works were in the temple were there because God commanded them to be made and to be in the temple.

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

The wicked things are the work of them that turn aside.
It is not what enters the man that defiles him. It is out of the heart that comes evil works.

I agree with you and with the psalmist that I don’t want the things that the world offers, but the things are not inherently evil. They may offer a temptation, but temptation is not sin. Jesus was tempted and without sin.
We are in the world. We are not of it. The physical world is not the focus. We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
There is no mention of physical instruments of any sort.