If once saved - can again be lost? The Poll

[Cathode]

@Cathode

I don't know a single practicing Catholic, so when I have a question I ask you. I hope you don't mind that.

I was wondering if told a Catholic priest that I believe in salvation by Grace through faith alone without works for my initial salvation, would he understand what I meant?

The RCC is all about works in the realm of salvation and I'm not sure he would understand me.

He might ask you a question or two like: What do you mean by Faith?

Is it just intellectual assent, like merely intellectually believing Jesus?

Or “ I believe in Jesus and that belief extends to loving others and doing what Jesus commanded”

Is your faith in Jesus just an intellectual exercise in your head?

 

[Charlie24]

He might ask you a question or two like: What do you mean by Faith?

Is it just intellectual assent, like merely intellectually believing Jesus?

Or “ I believe in Jesus and that belief extends to loving others and doing what Jesus commanded”

Is your faith in Jesus just an intellectual exercise in your head?

So it seems he more than likely would avoid my questions with questions.

I could see that happening.

 

[Cathode]

So it seems he more than likely would avoid my questions with questions.

I could see that happening.

No you would avoid his questions as you did mine,

Is Faith just in your head like “ I believe in Jesus and His complete work on the cross for my salvation, I don’t need to love others or carry out Jesus commands for my salvation “

 

[Charlie24]

No you would avoid his questions as you did mine,

Is Faith just in your head like “ I believe in Jesus and His complete work on the cross for my salvation, I don’t need to love others or carry out Jesus commands for my salvation “

I'm asking you if he would understand Justification by faith alone as I believe, and you are questioning if I'm saved with your line of questioning.

That's how far apart we are, not even in the ballpark.

 

[Walter]

So it seems he more than likely would avoid my questions with questions.

I could see that happening.

You are the one avoiding questions. Why don't you address the point Cathode is making about salvation by way of intellectual assent 'alone'.

I grew up in a Baptist church that pushed 'easy believism'. I watched the pastor's son being re-baptized multiple times because, as the pastor said, 'even though he expressed a public profession of faith in the past, he just didn't mean it'. Do you find examples of this anywhere in scripture?

 

[DaveXR650]

You are assigning shallow motivations for the most part. This not my experience of EWTN coverts or Jerry’s account either, they often reference scriptural reasons for their conversion.
Jerry was referring to the Bible a number of times in the video. Maybe you should re watch it.

I'm not assigning anything. Just those are my observations. I stand by my observation that EWTN "Coming Home" testimonials usually revolve around ascetics of the buildings and the ceremonies. And the scriptures brought up are no more profound than what you do on here. We just disagree. That's all. I have watched it. And I have the Catholic catechism and the works of Thomas Aquinas. I greatly respect Aquinas, as did the Puritans (who sometimes quoted him and sometimes disagreed), but I do not find it possible to reconcile the scripture we have available with the doctrine and practice of the Roman Catholic church.

I do find it amusing that the Catholic laypeople carry the weight of apologetics with the priests usually staying out of the way lest they come out and say something that messes up the doctrinal shell game Catholics tend to play with theology. For instance, in the developing conversation above I am sure many Catholics will immediately agree that you are saved by faith (and even "alone", if it is meant the initial faith that by which you come to Christ). They don't mean the same thing though.

 

[Charlie24]

Your the one avoiding questions. Why don't you address the point Cathode is making about salvation by way of intellectual assent 'alone'.

I grew up in a Baptist church that pushed 'easy believism'. I watched the pastor's son being re-baptized multiple times because, as the pastor said, 'even though he expressed a public profession of faith in the past, he just didn't mean it'. Do you find examples of this anywhere in scripture?

I do as James says, I show my faith by works for the Lord, not making the works essential for salvation in my works.

That's what is not understood.

 

[Charlie24]

I do as James says, I show my faith by works for the Lord, not making the works essential for salvation in my works.

That's what is not understood.

I work because I'm saved not as the Catholic that works to get saved.

 

[Charlie24]

I work because I'm saved not as the Catholic that works to get saved.

That is the short explanation of justification by faith that I seriously doubt a Catholic priest would understand.

 

[Cathode]

I'm asking you if he would understand Justification by faith alone as I believe,

He would ask you to qualify what you mean by “ faith alone “.

He would be trained to know what the general Protestant definition is.

and you are questioning if I'm saved with your line of questioning.

No, I’m questioning you on what you mean by Faith.

Is it just intellectual assent, something you believe in your head or does Faith extend to also loving others and carrying out Jesus commands?

If faith is just something you believe in your head, then that is not enough for salvation. No.

 

[DaveXR650]

He might ask you a question or two like: What do you mean by Faith?

Is it just intellectual assent, like merely intellectually believing Jesus?

Or “ I believe in Jesus and that belief extends to loving others and doing what Jesus commanded”

Is your faith in Jesus just an intellectual exercise in your head?

Are you saying then that if I could show you some Protestant theology that refuted mere intellectual assent, word for word then you would drop your objections to Protestantism? We may able to resolve this today.

 

[Charlie24]

He would ask you to qualify what you mean by “ faith alone “.

He would be trained to know what the general Protestant definition is.



No, I’m questioning you on what you mean by Faith.

Is it just intellectual assent, something you believe in your head or does Faith extend to also loving others and carrying out Jesus commands?

If faith is just something you believe in your head, then that is not enough for salvation. No.

Who would ask what "faith alone" means? It's being justified by faith alone, pretty simple, right?

 

[Charlie24]

Are you saying then that if I could show you some Protestant theology that refuted mere intellectual assent, word for word then you would drop your objections to Protestantism? We may able to resolve this today.

No I;m saying that Paul told us we are justified by grace through faith, without works.

That only leaves faith, as in faith alone.

Man can onlly imagine himself saved by fatih or works, Paul said faith and no works.

How hard is that to figure out?

 

[Cathode]

Who would ask what "faith alone" means? It's being justified by faith alone, pretty simple, right?

What do you mean by “ Faith “ ? That’s all I’m asking.

Can you answer that and then I could answer what that hypothetical Catholic Priest might say.

 

[Charlie24]

What do you mean by “ Faith “ ? That’s all I’m asking.

Can you answer that and then I could answer what that hypothetical Catholic Priest might say.

Faith that Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose from the grave on the 3rd day.

Faith in what He did for me will deliver me from the wrath God.

A faith generated in the heart with love for the One who gave Himself for me.

A working faith not to get saved but because I'm, saved.

 

[Cathode]

No I;m saying that Paul told us we are justified by grace through faith, without works.

That only leaves faith, as in faith alone.

Man can onlly imagine himself saved by fatih or works, Paul said faith and no works.

How hard is that to figure out?

Ok it sounds like an intellectual faith in the head only.
Don’t have to love others or do what Jesus commands. “Just believe in your head and you are saved”

Am I right?

 

[Charlie24]

Ok it sounds like an intellectual faith in the head only.
Don’t have to love others or do what Jesus commands. “Just believe in your head and you are saved”

Am I right?

post #95

 

[Charlie24]

Faith that Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose from the grave on the 3rd day.

Faith in what He did for me will deliver me from the wrath God.

A faith generated in the heart with love for the One who gave Himself for me.

A working faith not to get saved but because I'm, saved.

If we don't believe this then we are in trouble!

 

[Psalty]

No you would avoid his questions as you did mine,

Is Faith just in your head like “ I believe in Jesus and His complete work on the cross for my salvation, I don’t need to love others or carry out Jesus commands for my salvation “

Belief means Faith in or Trust of God.

Maybe a better way to to understand “Believe” would be “to have loyalty towards”.

It doesnt always mean you are always active in loyalty, but even when you are resting you are always loyal.

 

[Cathode]

A working faith not to get saved but because I'm, saved.

What?

If we don't believe this then we are in trouble!

What do you mean by “ Faith “ mate?

Is it just the intellectual assent in your head, but doesn’t extend to loving others and doing what Jesus commanded?