Key figure in SBC 'Conservative Resurgence' turns Roman Catholic!

[Jerome]

baptistnews.com/article/a-high-profile-conservative-southern-baptist-becomes-catholic

"Johnson was a trustee at Southern Seminary from 1989 to 1998 and chaired the board from 1996 to 1998", "in 1990...[he] accused seminary President Roy Honeycutt of not believing the Bible. After Honeycutt retired and was replaced by Al Mohler — the pick of Johnson and other conservatives — Johnson earned a degree from the seminary and later worked there, ultimately serving as dean of Boyce College from 2002 to 2004. From 2004 to 2008, he was president of Criswell College in Dallas and again from 2010 to 2013. He left there to become president of National Religious Broadcasters from 2013 to 2019. In between his stints at Criswell College, Johnson served as vice president for academic development at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary."

"Thirty-five years after accusing Honeycutt of not believing the Bible, Johnson has abandoned his Baptist heritage to embrace Catholicism....Johnson says he 'read my way' into Catholicism", "began watching the Catholic TV channel EWTN...and 'felt drawn' to the faith."

"He explains his embrace of the Catholic teaching of transubstantiation — the belief that the bread and wine of Communion when blessed by the priest become the literal body and blood of Christ. 'The consecration of the bread and the wine of the host — and that through a miracle it becomes what Jesus said it was, the body and blood of Christ".

"So it’s the real presence of Christ." "By contrast, he says, 'Baptists believe in the real absence of Christ...they believe it’s a memorial'." He recalls being "given a 'cuplet' with a cheap cracker and juice. What he was given was...'grace free', he says. 'It’s alcohol free and it’s atonement free'....if you don’t believe this is the body and blood of the Lord, it ceases to be very important'."

 

[Jerome]

"In the video, Johnson also explains how he came to understand papal authority as biblical"

 

[DaveXR650]

@Jerome. I'll listen to the video more carefully when I have more time but in what I did look at the last 10 minutes are exactly what I have noticed too. Johnson basically says that when he was at Southern they acknowledged that the Catholics had the best ethics literature, and he said he has noticed that the Catholics have the best success dealing with Islam in European countries compared to European countries where Protestantism is prevalent.

I am on "First Things" a lot, and I initially got on because of the writings of Carl Truman. But it is mainly Catholic writings. And indeed Catholics are far ahead on ethics and public policy. Plus, our VP, J.D. Vance is Catholic and Hillsdale is carrying a lot of the weight in the public policy debate so for a guy like Johnson, who seems to be able to spot trends, conversion to Catholicism should be a good move.

 

[atpollard]

He recalls being "given a 'cuplet' with a cheap cracker and juice. What he was given was...'grace free', he says. 'It’s alcohol free and it’s atonement free'....if you don’t believe this is the body and blood of the Lord, it ceases to be very important'."

He is not wrong about this … even a symbolic ordinance needs to be treated with respect, and taking a pre-packaged juice and cracker to eat at home as service closes is not what Jesus had in mind or the early saints shared “in remembrance”. The sacred has become insignificant in too many services.

[Personally, I just could never get past the worship of Mary … you can call it “veneration” all you want, but if it quacks like a duck and calls itself Queen of the Universe and accepts prayers … ]

 

[jakethebaptist]

The evangelical movement has reduced Christianity into a marketing scheme. We only do things based on their perceived efficacy. While we have routines, we have no meaningful ritual. Our auditoriums are built not to inspire worship of God, but to provide best control for lighting and amplified acoustics. Our songs are based upon what is popular for the moment, not what can bridge the ages of Christ-followers. Our sermons are neatly packaged to fill the required time slot for YouTube videos, rather than allowing the message of Christ to take lead. Our communion is given in pre-packaged, hermetically sealed, industrially produced Styrofoam tasting wafers and juice that makes grape-flavored cough syrup seem refined - all because it takes less effort to organize and is a bit cheaper. Pragmatism is killing the evangelical church, so it is no wonder that some find meaning in a religion that cherishes beauty and tradition, no matter how far off scripture it is.

 

[DaveXR650]

Our communion is given in pre-packaged, hermetically sealed, industrially produced Styrofoam tasting wafers and juice that makes grape-flavored cough syrup seem refined

Yes. The old Dimetapp Elixir I believe it was called. Good post.

 

[Salty]

. Our sermons are neatly packaged to fill the required time slot for YouTube videos, rather than allowing the message of Christ to take lead.

I was interim pastor at a church for several months - the morning worship was on the local radio station. If I went past noon for the message - so be it. Didnt bother me a bit.

Our communion is given in pre-packaged, hermetically sealed, industrially produced Styrofoam tasting wafers and juice that makes grape-flavored cough

Some of this may have increased during the Chinese virus time - I would consider that understandable.

 

[Ascetic X]

The evangelical movement has reduced Christianity into a marketing scheme.
Our communion is given in pre-packaged, hermetically sealed, industrially produced Styrofoam tasting wafers and juice that makes grape-flavored cough syrup seem refined - all because it takes less effort to organize and is a bit cheaper.

Marketing schemes cannot be blamed on just the evangelical movement. Which church sold indulgences to gain funds?

To me, communion should be real bread and real wine. I attended a church service where communion was a piece of a saltine cracker and grape koolaid.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He is not wrong about this … even a symbolic ordinance needs to be treated with respect, and taking a pre-packaged juice and cracker to eat at home as service closes is not what Jesus had in mind or the early saints shared “in remembrance”. The sacred has become insignificant in too many services.

[Personally, I just could never get past the worship of Mary … you can call it “veneration” all you want, but if it quacks like a duck and calls itself Queen of the Universe and accepts prayers … ]

I can’t get past the pedofilea

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"In the video, Johnson also explains how he came to understand papal authority as biblical"

Another social climber. Now he is in a works based religion vs a Grace based religion. Have fun there buddy negotiating the 7 sacraments.

 

[Mikoo]

If I am not mistaken, the wine is not drunk by the members, only the host is consumed. So it seems that the drinking of the wine from those in attendance has been dropped as part of 'communion'.

 

[Ascetic X]

If I am not mistaken, the wine is not drunk by the members, only the host is consumed. So it seems that the drinking of the wine from those in attendance has been dropped as part of 'communion'.

In Roman Catholic tradition, while both bread and wine must be consecrated by the priest for a valid Mass, the congregation often receives only the consecrated host (Body), while the priest consumes the consecrated wine (Blood) alone. This practice supposedly stems from historical, logistical (avoiding spillage), and hygienic reasons. But I see it as depriving the congregation of half the Eucharist.

Contrary to Roman Catholic practice, Martin Luther insisted on giving both bread and wine to the laity.

At a local Greek Orthodox Church, I loved the liturgy and sermons, but did not like how the wine and chunks of bread are mixed together in a vessel, and wine soaked chunks of bread are spooned up to insert in church members mouths. This seemed unhygienic and odd, plus it was not how Jesus did it.

At a nearby Lutheran ELCA church, I thought it was funny to see the pastor always drink a much larger amount of wine from a goblet, than the tiny amount we were served in thimble sized plastic cups. But I guess he had to consume the amount of wine that was left over.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In Roman Catholic tradition, while both bread and wine must be consecrated by the priest for a valid Mass, the congregation often receives only the consecrated host (Body), while the priest consumes the consecrated wine (Blood) alone. This practice supposedly stems from historical, logistical (avoiding spillage), and hygienic reasons. But I see it as depriving the congregation of half the Eucharist.

Contrary to Roman Catholic practice, Martin Luther insisted on giving both bread and wine to the laity.

At a local Greek Orthodox Church, I loved the liturgy and sermons, but did not like how the wine and chunks of bread are mixed together in a vessel, and wine soaked chunks of bread are spooned up to insert in church members mouths. This seemed unhygienic and odd, plus it was not how Jesus did it.

At a nearby Lutheran ELCA church, I thought it was funny to see the pastor always drink a much larger amount of wine from a goblet, than the tiny amount we were served in thimble sized plastic cups. But I guess he had to consume the amount of wine that was left over.

First all Catholic Churches are Works based… I’m not looking for that. I will go to a Grace based church however. I don’t care how any of them serve communion… anyway it was a Jewish Seder so the bread was all unleavened and the wine was all kosher (blessed by a Rabbi). All attendees Mizrahi Jews. You certainly don’t get that in any Lutheran community church.

 

[Jerome]

Pastor Mark Dever (Southern Baptist Calvinist): "underscored the importance of publicly reading Scripture aloud, noting that many evangelical churches do not spend time doing that anymore. When he goes on vacation he says he has to go to a Roman Catholic church for a reliable place to find that."

 

[DaveXR650]

Pastor Mark Dever (Southern Baptist Calvinist): "underscored the importance of publicly reading Scripture aloud, noting that many evangelical churches do not spend time doing that anymore. When he goes on vacation he says he has to go to a Roman Catholic church for a reliable place to find that."

Dever's alright, but his over emphasis on intrusive church discipline I think has caused a lot of harm and hurt feelings. He has a publishing empire that reaches far beyond his church. Now that the Young, Restless and Reformed have fizzled out due to them going woke and the originators aging out there is a noticeable void in Protestant conservative spokesmen. It's no wonder that guys who are working in government are looking at Catholic voices. They are about the only ones left. Maybe Dever is drifting too or maybe he was just giving credit where it is due.

 

[JesusFan]

@Jerome. I'll listen to the video more carefully when I have more time but in what I did look at the last 10 minutes are exactly what I have noticed too. Johnson basically says that when he was at Southern they acknowledged that the Catholics had the best ethics literature, and he said he has noticed that the Catholics have the best success dealing with Islam in European countries compared to European countries where Protestantism is prevalent.

I am on "First Things" a lot, and I initially got on because of the writings of Carl Truman. But it is mainly Catholic writings. And indeed Catholics are far ahead on ethics and public policy. Plus, our VP, J.D. Vance is Catholic and Hillsdale is carrying a lot of the weight in the public policy debate so for a guy like Johnson, who seems to be able to spot trends, conversion to Catholicism should be a good move.

He is switching from light back into darkness, as he will have to pretty much place in the spiritual toilet and flush out pretty much true Christianity, as this reminds me when the so called "bible answer" man switched to being Greek orthodox

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The evangelical movement has reduced Christianity into a marketing scheme. We only do things based on their perceived efficacy. While we have routines, we have no meaningful ritual. Our auditoriums are built not to inspire worship of God, but to provide best control for lighting and amplified acoustics. Our songs are based upon what is popular for the moment, not what can bridge the ages of Christ-followers. Our sermons are neatly packaged to fill the required time slot for YouTube videos, rather than allowing the message of Christ to take lead. Our communion is given in pre-packaged, hermetically sealed, industrially produced Styrofoam tasting wafers and juice that makes grape-flavored cough syrup seem refined - all because it takes less effort to organize and is a bit cheaper. Pragmatism is killing the evangelical church, so it is no wonder that some find meaning in a religion that cherishes beauty and tradition, no matter how far off scripture it is.

Jake, I’m pleasantly surprised that you have correctly earmarked the present evangelical movement so completely,,, it fits with my analysis of them also. So why do people flock to it? It’s merely theatrical.

Pastor Mark Dever (Southern Baptist Calvinist): "underscored the importance of publicly reading Scripture aloud, noting that many evangelical churches do not spend time doing that anymore. When he goes on vacation he says he has to go to a Roman Catholic church for a reliable place to find that."

has Albert Moeller made any comments on this yet?