Supreme Court Blocks Trump Tariffs

[Ben1445]

Ya know it is a wise decision and that is why Carney did it.

Canada does not bend the knee to any country.

But Alberta bends the knee to Ottawa.

 

[DaveXR650]

Along the line of what you posted here is that video link.

Thanks. But I don't think Keynesian economics would help, and after the 2007 meltdown it was said we were all Keynesians anyway. This guy blames a lot on Trump with no specifics when the real problem was right at Davos. There was nothing wrong with our basic monetary system, especially when our currencies were linked to real gold - but that is not something Keynes advocated either.

What we did was a problem with all social democracies. We demanded services we couldn't pay for and were able to run up huge deficits because other countries in the same boat felt that for all it's risk U.S. dollars were the least risky among a lot of bad choices, so they bought all the debt we ran up - so far. Eventually, countries like those in Europe and Canada will move more to Yuan and we will have to raise rates to induce further purchase of our debt, and/or reduce deficits which we cannot voluntarily do. China is in debt big time too, and so is Europe. This is unsustainable and Trump's only problem is he hasn't been able to use proper coalitions and Congress to enact something which will do what he has correctly assessed as needing to be done. That is, get our manufacturing back on track and reduce deficit spending. The attitude of the guy in the video as he praised Davos shows what Trump is up against.

Eventually, the US will have to drastically cut back on defense spending. And, because no one in this country can get elected if they cut entitlement spending we will monetize the debt and inflate our way out. What that means for the rest of the world is yet to be determined but Trump has done nothing that is outrageous except raise the alarm that this is unsustainable. Trump was our last chance to get some kind of handle on our spending and he will fail. But no one at Davos has suggested anything that has any chance of helping. We as Americans are indeed spent as far as defending the rest of the world. We get nothing but scorn, some of it deserved, but we are tired of being lectured by a bunch of socialists on what we are failing to do for them. Trump has actually done nothing to anyone yet the hatred from our supposed allies is palpable over what, asking that countries actually pay what they themselves agreed to for their own and collective defense? What a bully he is. When we monetize the debt our standard of living will collapse. I don't know what will happen then. I do know from the "love" shown to us by Europe, that we had better not count on them for any help. You have posted the info of them stating flat out that they are very ready to go with China at any time so thanks for the heads up.

 

[Ben1445]

Why would we want to pay the tariffs that you do?

The US wants higher tariffs which is actually just a higher tax on your own people.


When have I said retaliatory tariffs were a good thing? I think tariffs are really dumb. That is why under CUSMA most of the products that crossed the border were tariff free.

Remember it is Trum* that keeps throwing around the tariff idea, 50% here 100% there. That man does not seem to rational to me.

It doesn’t sound reasonable to us either. So we fight fire with fire. That is what retaliatory means. You are tariffed in kind.
Yo also don’t try very hard to get his POV. But your tds doesn’t affect us until you officially become a state.

Maybe if Trum* was not so irrational then the US could be considered a trading partner. But he is unstable and thus your whole admin. is seen that way.


You really should read what I said Ben.

The world does not need the US to survive but the US needs the world to survive. Get use to it.

And that is why the world jumps to renegotiate? Be cause they don’t need us? They renegotiated a worse deal for themselves because they don’t need us? Really? Huh? And all this time you have been saying that President TRUMP is a bully, but he is unable to bully because he represents a nation that is not needed.
You don’t need our military? Stop using them!
The UN doesn’t need our money? Ha! Don’t take it!

Put some action behind those big words. Stand on your own. Get your borders secured, but on your own dime without any US involvement and I’ll pay you on the back and say good job. Till there is even a real attempt, and there will not be, you have a lot of hot air.

Without the inputs from the world the US cannot survive. The whole world is interconnected like it or not.

So if you cut off your neighbor who wants your oil, you can carry it over the mountains in buckets. Ottawa won’t let you do it any reasonable way.

The reality is that Canada is in a much better position than the US but even we would not survive without the inputs from other nations.

The world will trade with the US as a trading partner not as a vassal subject.

Act like trading partners instead of welfare recipients then.

 

[Ben1445]

Elect someone else.

You tell me to read!!?

Carney will elect someone else?

Na Alberta is already great

And that is why Alberta is complaining about Ottawa?
O great vassals of Ottawa! How did you get to be so great under such oppressive governments. It is amazing how you talk out of both sides of your mouth the way you do.
You have the best world and you are miserable.

The money drain out of Alberta was not negotiated it was imposed by the federal gov.

What an already great way to live. Don’t change a thing.

That is the difference Ben the US negotiates a deal then complains that they do not like the deal.
Then you have Trum* just impose extra tariffs for some made up slight.

You negotiated CUSMA. Don’t complain. It’s your thing remember?

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning - This thread will be closed no sooner than 1130 GMT - 530 am EST / 230 PST

 

[DaveXR650]

It doesn’t sound reasonable to us either. So we fight fire with fire. That is what retaliatory means. You are tariffed in kind.

That's a good point. When Trump first started talking about tariffs I started looking to see what we currently charged and what other countries charged on us. Man, talk about difficult to find information. And not just because of accounting maneuvers or disguised VAT taxes, but the information was flat out unobtainable. It's a little easier now but bottom line, the US was indeed being taken advantage of by our so called friends. Tariffs are indeed commonly used by most if not all nations, yet seem to be irresponsible bullying if done by us.

 

[Silverhair]

But Alberta bends the knee to Ottawa.

Odd that you think saying that actually bothers me.

You are the one that has closed their eyes to the reality of Trum*.

The fact that you do not even understand how tariffs work is shocking.

Do some basic research Ben.

You are the ones that will pay the price and you applaud him for doing it to you.

 

[Silverhair]

Thanks. But I don't think Keynesian economics would help, and after the 2007 meltdown it was said we were all Keynesians anyway. This guy blames a lot on Trump with no specifics when the real problem was right at Davos. There was nothing wrong with our basic monetary system, especially when our currencies were linked to real gold - but that is not something Keynes advocated either.

What we did was a problem with all social democracies. We demanded services we couldn't pay for and were able to run up huge deficits because other countries in the same boat felt that for all it's risk U.S. dollars were the least risky among a lot of bad choices, so they bought all the debt we ran up - so far. Eventually, countries like those in Europe and Canada will move more to Yuan and we will have to raise rates to induce further purchase of our debt, and/or reduce deficits which we cannot voluntarily do. China is in debt big time too, and so is Europe. This is unsustainable and Trump's only problem is he hasn't been able to use proper coalitions and Congress to enact something which will do what he has correctly assessed as needing to be done. That is, get our manufacturing back on track and reduce deficit spending. The attitude of the guy in the video as he praised Davos shows what Trump is up against.

Eventually, the US will have to drastically cut back on defense spending. And, because no one in this country can get elected if they cut entitlement spending we will monetize the debt and inflate our way out. What that means for the rest of the world is yet to be determined but Trump has done nothing that is outrageous except raise the alarm that this is unsustainable. Trump was our last chance to get some kind of handle on our spending and he will fail. But no one at Davos has suggested anything that has any chance of helping. We as Americans are indeed spent as far as defending the rest of the world. We get nothing but scorn, some of it deserved, but we are tired of being lectured by a bunch of socialists on what we are failing to do for them. Trump has actually done nothing to anyone yet the hatred from our supposed allies is palpable over what, asking that countries actually pay what they themselves agreed to for their own and collective defense? What a bully he is. When we monetize the debt our standard of living will collapse. I don't know what will happen then. I do know from the "love" shown to us by Europe, that we had better not count on them for any help. You have posted the info of them stating flat out that they are very ready to go with China at any time so thanks for the heads up.

The problem as I see it is that the companies and investors wanted to make more money so they off-shored all the could so they could pay bigger dividends to those that really did not need the money and in so doing shafted the workers in the US and Canada.

What frustrates me is that under CUSMA we all were in good shape but Trum* seems determined to destroy the golden goose.

The ideas that he can get manufacturing back to the US is just a pipe dream. If he keeps the tariffs then the inputs cost will make the products to expensive and thus limit sales. But he thinks tariffs are the greatest thing since sliced bread so it is doubtful he will see the light.

Canada is at least trying to setup a trading block. Will it work I do not know but it is better that what we see coming out of the US.

 

[Silverhair]

It doesn’t sound reasonable to us either. So we fight fire with fire. That is what retaliatory means. You are tariffed in kind.
Yo also don’t try very hard to get his POV. But your tds doesn’t affect us until you officially become a state

You do remember that it was Trum* that started this tariff mess. Or do you have selective memory?

His idea of MAGA has not worked that well has it.

It would be better for you if we allowed the US to become 4 or 5 provinces.

And that is why the world jumps to renegotiate? Be cause they don’t need us? They renegotiated a worse deal for themselves because they don’t need us? Really? Huh? And all this time you have been saying that President TRUMP is a bully, but he is unable to bully because he represents a nation that is not needed.
You don’t need our military? Stop using them!
The UN doesn’t need our money? Ha! Don’t take it!

Put some action behind those big words. Stand on your own. Get your borders secured, but on your own dime without any US involvement and I’ll pay you on the back and say good job. Till there is even a real attempt, and there will not be, you have a lot of hot air.

They sell to the US because the US wants to buy. If you want to pay that extra tax called a tariff why should we stop you.

What do you mean a worse deal, there not paying an extra tax on imports as you are in the US.

NO I have said he is irrational and self aggrandizing. I have said he acts like a school yard bully which is a apt description for him.

So if you cut off your neighbor who wants your oil, you can carry it over the mountains in buckets. Ottawa won’t let you do it any reasonable way.

Don't have to carry it as we have pipeline that delivers approx. 1 million barrels a day.

Act like trading partners instead of welfare recipients then.

We are trading partners but Trum* want to change that and try to go it alone.

 

[Silverhair]

You tell me to read!!?

Carney will elect someone else?

Should have said we will elect someone else

And that is why Alberta is complaining about Ottawa?
O great vassals of Ottawa! How did you get to be so great under such oppressive governments. It is amazing how you talk out of both sides of your mouth the way you do.
You have the best world and you are miserable.

We got great because we work hard and develop our resources even when hampered by the liberal gov.

What's your excuse for your massive debt and your tariff tax that you will all have to pay?

Ah Ben you wish you could have it as good as we have it in Canada.

What an already great way to live. Don’t change a thing.

I do not plan on it

You negotiated CUSMA. Don’t complain. It’s your thing remember?

Yes we did negotiate CUSMA which Trum* called the greatest deal ever made and now with his failing memory he cannot remember that so he says the US is being ripped off through it. It is sad to see someone suffering from such memory loss.



Ben it is sad to see that you are so committed to protecting Trum* that you cannot even see the damage he has done to your country.

 

[DaveXR650]

What frustrates me is that under CUSMA we all were in good shape but Trum* seems determined to destroy the golden goose.

But if you look at CUSMA in the auto section for instance, it stipulates that a higher percentage of auto components come from North America instead of Asia. What gets me is that you come on and seem to think its perfectly wonderful that Canada, Europe make their own deals with China while shutting us out - then tout CUSMA as being wonderful when in reality it does the same thing Trump is doing. Isn't that hypocritical? Trump has managed to actually do what CUSMA said it wanted to do (he cut US Chinese imports by 26% over a year), and suddenly this becomes idiotic bullying by the orange man. I don't get it. I'm open to explanation but what I want is actual specific illustrations of Trumps idiocy, not vague third hand internet sayings.

 

[Reynolds]

Supreme Court rules on Trump tariffs in major test of executive branch powers

The Supreme Court ruled on one of the president's signature economic achievements, which Trump has billed the tariff case as 'life or death' for the US economy.

www.foxnews.com

One SC judge has said the US may be required to return millions in tariffs.

John Roberts said the power of tariffs belongs to Congress.

Clarence Thomas says it doesn't
Thankfully, Trump is not going to comply with their ruling. The Court was created as the weakest branch and they think they are the strongest branch.

 

[Ben1445]

You do remember that it was Trum* that started this tariff mess. Or do you have selective memory?

Started cleaning up the tariff mess. You just didn’t notice the tariff dust because it was all on our floor. When the cleaning started, that is when you started coughing.
Not selective memory. Just a clearer picture than you. I don’t expect you to be happy about it. I just want you to turn off your selective vision.

His idea of MAGA has not worked that well has it.

I think it has. But it wasn’t MNorthAGA.
So I expect your tunnel vision to be unappreciative of what President Trump is not doing for you.
But you can honestly say that he is not your President. So don’t expect anything from him. He doesn’t work for you, does he? But I have told you before that I can see the proofs of a better economy in my local area. It doesn’t take much to get eyes on certain sectors of the economy around here. And things are looking pretty decent even after the media puts a bad spin on it.
I don’t want free money. Just the opportunity to put out value and make a living.

It would be better for you if we allowed the US to become 4 or 5 provinces.

They sell to the US because the US wants to buy. If you want to pay that extra tax called a tariff why should we stop you.

Then why did nations drop their extra taxes? If they don’t need our business, why are they losing their extra money to keep our business.
Your version of 2+2 comes out to 3.

What do you mean a worse deal, there not paying an extra tax on imports as you are in the US.

NO I have said he is irrational and self aggrandizing. I have said he acts like a school yard bully which is a apt description for him.

Because he fought back?

Don't have to carry it as we have pipeline that delivers approx. 1 million barrels a day.


We are trading partners but Trum* want to change that and try to go it alone.

This is the stuff that makes drama queens. To say that Trump wants to go alone is an exaggeration.
But you would have to know where we (the US) were before you could understand why we are here now. And you have selective memory yourself. It is not that you should know American history, but if you want to understand America today, you will have too.

 

[Silverhair]

But if you look at CUSMA in the auto section for instance, it stipulates that a higher percentage of auto components come from North America instead of Asia. What gets me is that you come on and seem to think its perfectly wonderful that Canada, Europe make their own deals with China while shutting us out - then tout CUSMA as being wonderful when in reality it does the same thing Trump is doing. Isn't that hypocritical? Trump has managed to actually do what CUSMA said it wanted to do (he cut US Chinese imports by 26% over a year), and suddenly this becomes idiotic bullying by the orange man. I don't get it. I'm open to explanation but what I want is actual specific illustrations of Trumps idiocy, not vague third hand internet sayings.

Why would Canada pivot away from the US?

Make Canada the 51 st state
35 % then 50 % tariff
Wants to tear up CUSMA
Make Greenland part of US easy way or hard way
Invade a sovereign nation kidnap the leader
I could go on but I am sure you get the picture, he has made the US unreliable

Trum* has acted irrationally the whole time he has been in office. You cannot trust anything he says as it can and usually does change within 24 hours.

Canada made or is the process of making deals with numerous nations that are reliable because the US has proven to be just the opposite. The deal with China was to get our canola and other produce back into China. And if you remember the US has been trying to get a deal with China.

The US did not want to be part of CPTPP and is not in the EU. Canada is just doing what the US has always done, form trade relationships.

Canada happens to be in the position to bring the CPTPP nations and the EU together as we have trade deals with both, we also have trade deals with many nation in the ASEAN trading block. The fact the US is not included should give the US pause to ask why?

When so many nations are forming trading blocks that exclude the US then you should be asking what about the US makes them want to do that? The US is just another country that they will trade with.

As I said CUSMA was a trade partnership that was good for all three countries and now Trum* wants to destroy it.

 

[Silverhair]

Started cleaning up the tariff mess. You just didn’t notice the tariff dust because it was all on our floor. When the cleaning started, that is when you started coughing.
Not selective memory. Just a clearer picture than you. I don’t expect you to be happy about it. I just want you to turn off your selective vision.

I do not care if you want to pay the tariff tax. My question is why would you want to?

Then why did nations drop their extra taxes? If they don’t need our business, why are they losing their extra money to keep our business.
Your version of 2+2 comes out to 3.

They do not see the need to put the extra tax on their own people. Trum* and you it would seem think putting that extra tax on what you import is a good thing. You really do not understand how tariffs work do you.

This is the stuff that makes drama queens. To say that Trump wants to go alone is an exaggeration.

Yes I know that Trum* is a bit of a Drama Queen. But as you say he is not my problem but he is yours.

 

[DaveXR650]

Trum* has acted irrationally the whole time he has been in office. You cannot trust anything he says as it can and usually does change within 24 hours.

I am concerned about all those things you listed above also. I was in favor of the Supreme Court ruling on tariffs although I am not against tariffs in general (and neither are all the other countries who currently and in the past use them as well).

What I, and I think the other American guys commenting on this thread get riled up about is that the outrage of European and Canadian citizens seems to be so selective. Let me explain.
The European Union for example. An unelected bunch of people who have never even held real jobs telling all the citizens of Europe how they must conduct business and travel and even the finances of their own states. Now they want to raise their own army! Yet no outrage, unless you follow Nigel Farage. If Trump tried half the things they do to bully other countries he would be considered the next Hitler. (Wait, I guess he already is.) What about the "Great Reset" announced by European overlords. Of course that is perfectly OK, except when Trump suggests something not lining up with that he is somehow the nut.

Last night, I watched BBC news, not Fox, and they had a full length feature on Mexico and the fact that the drug lords are on the verge of a total takeover. Yet no mention from you guys on how outrageous that is. Yet even the BBC admitted the drug lords are concerned with what happened to Madauro and that they might have to eventually deal with the US. Yet Trump is a moron, while the Mexican president is intelligently in control. A lot of our concerns with international agreements with Canada and Mexico are about these things, especially with Mexico.

It just seems like for you and Europeans, you can actually do the most outrageous things, like Merkel replacing Germans with non-Germans, yet you are outraged over anything the orange man does. A great reset, no problem, "Asian" rape gangs? Just bust any British cop who notices. Replace the local population? Push assisted suicide until it becomes the second biggest cause of death in your country. No problem. That's alright, as long as the orange man doesn't suggest that maybe we don't need to be always moving in that direction. That would be crazy!

 

[Charlie24]

Clarence Thomas says it doesn't
Thankfully, Trump is not going to comply with their ruling. The Court was created as the weakest branch and they think they are the strongest branch.

I've noticed especially with Trump or maybe it's always their purpose, they leave wiggle room in their rulings.

It seems to me in this last ruling they left him a clear path to continue the tariffs as he see's fit but reminded him he is not a king, there are 2 others branches that equal his power,

So I'm thinking it was just a check up.

 

[Salty]

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