Has no Biblical foundation

[37818]

Yes, we disagree. The 14th of Nisan is preparation day for the first day of Unleavened Bread.

This is where we disagree.
Exodus 12:18.
The seven days being 14-20. The 20th ends at the evening of the 21st.
The feast being the 15-21 per Deuteronomy 16:8.

 

[Charlie24]

This is where we disagree.
Exodus 12:18.
The seven days being 14-20. The 20th ends at the evening of the 21st.
The feast being the 15-21 per Deuteronomy 16:8.

Exodus 12:18 states the evening of the 14th "you shall eat unleavened bread."

That is at sunset on the 14th. At the same time, the same sunset the 15th begins.

It's like at midnight on the 14th, it is the 15th at that very moment, beginning a new day.

They were eating the Passover at this transition time at sunset until the morning at daylight.

There could be nothing left of the sacrifice it all had to be eaten and no bones broken, fulfilling Scripture that not a bone of Him was broken.

 

[37818]

Exodus 12:18 states the evening of the 14th "you shall eat unleavened bread."

That is at sunset on the 14th. At the same time, the same sunset the 15th begins.

It's like at midnight on the 14th, it is the 15th at that very moment, beginning a new day.

They were eating the Passover at this transition time at sunset until the morning at daylight.

There could be nothing left of the sacrifice it all had to be eaten and no bones broken, fulfilling Scripture that not a bone of Him was broken.

Sunset on the 15th, Mark 14:17, And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

Each calendar date starts with their sunset

 

[37818]

Geneva Bible, Mark 15:42, And nowe when the night was come (because it was the day of the preparation that is before the Sabbath)

Geneva Bible, John 19:31, The Iewes then (because it was the Preparation, that the bodies should not remaine vpon the crosse on the Sabbath day: for that Sabbath was an hie day) besought Pilate that their legges might be broken, and that they might be taken downe.

 

[37818]

Midnight on the 14th comes before the day of the 14th.

In 30AD Tuesday evening was the beginning of the 14th.
Midnight Tuesday becomes a Wednesday of the 14th.

 

[Charlie24]

Sunset on the 15th, Mark 14:17, And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

Each calendar date starts with their sunset

This is where the Wed. crucifixion comes into view.

In Mark 14:12 "And the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover..."

We know the Passover sacrifice is not killed on the High Day Sabbath, as many here wrongly interpret.

Mark is referring the first day of Unleavened Bread coming up, we don't know what that day this is.

With the Wed. crucifixion this day in question is the preparation day.

He was arrested on Wed. night after the Passover meal and was crucified during the same day.

This is taking in to consideration the High Day added to the weekly Sabbath.

 

[37818]

.

This is where the Wed. crucifixion comes into view.

In Mark 14:12 "And the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover..."

We know the Passover sacrifice is not killed on the High Day Sabbath, as many here wrongly interpret.

Mark is referring the first day of Unleavened Bread coming up, we don't know what that day this is.

With the Wed. crucifixion this day in question is the preparation day.

He was arrested on Wed. night after the Passover meal and was crucified during the same day.

This is taking in to consideration the High Day added to the weekly Sabbath.

Wednesday sunset becomes the 15th. Mark 14:17.
And the 15th becomes Thursday at midnight.

 

[Charlie24]

.
Wednesday sunset becomes the 15th. Mark 14:17.
And the 15th becomes Thursday at midnight.

You have just described a Wed. crucifixion!

Wed. being the preparation day that Christ was crucified, the 15th being the next day Thurs. the High Day.

 

[37818]

Jewish day dates are sunset to sunset.
Roman day names are midnight to midnight.

 

[37818]

You have just described a Wed. crucifixion!

Wed. being the preparation day that Christ was crucified, the 15th being the next day Thurs. the High Day.

Not at all.
Wednesday evening Mark 14:17. Jesus created His remembrance supper.
Midnight became Thursday the 15th. The day of the 15th He was crucified.

 

[Charlie24]

Not at all.
Wednesday evening Mark 14:17. Jesus created His remembrance supper.
Midnight became Thursday the 15th. The day of the 15th He was crucified.

We are not agreeing on how the days work in Jewish time.

I'm repeating myself over and over, so it seems we are wasting each other's time.

So to each his own as my Dad would say. I agree to disagree.

 

[37818]

R. A. Torrey proposed the Wednesday crucifixion.
Based on Matthew 12:40, For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I was taught the Friday crucifixion.

Thursday was for me a discovery.

I have graphed all three views.
.

 

[37818]

I used A. T . Roberson's harmony to discover the Thursday crucifixion.

 

[Charlie24]

R. A. Torrey proposed the Wednesday crucifixion.
Based on Matthew 12:40, For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I was taught the Friday crucifixion.

Thursday was for me a discovery.

I have graphed all three views.
.

I pulled up something I think may help define what time the evening of the 14th of Nisan occurred.

I think maybe this is our misunderstanding.

The evening of the 14th of Nisan (Passover) refers to the time "between the two evenings," interpreted by historical and Temple records as the afternoon of the 14th, specifically between 3:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m. (the ninth to eleventh hours). This period was when the Passover lamb was sacrificed, immediately before sunset.

• Interpretation of "Evening" (14th): While some interpret this as the start of the 14th (sunset), historical records from Josephus and the Talmud confirm that the slaughter occurred in the afternoon, between high noon and sunset, to be roasted and eaten that night.
• Alternative View: Some interpretations, particularly those adhering to Karaites or Sadducees traditions, hold that "between the evenings" refers to the twilight period immediately after sunset at the very beginning of the 14th.
• The Meal: The Passover lamb was eaten during the night of the 14th (running into the 15th), often associated with the early hours (6 p.m. to 2-3 a.m.).
  

In 2026, the 14th of Nisan begins at sunset on April 2, with the afternoon of the 14th falling on Friday, April 3.

 

[JonC]

Going back to JonC point on tradition and how they interpreted the 2 Sabbaths that week, and what they actually did is unknown.

So we are not interpreting the info from the 4 authors the way the Sanhedrin did. Everything we process comes to a dead end.

We simply don't have enough info, and I personally think the Lord intended it that way.

Exactly. We can speculate and make reasonable arguments for a few days (and even a few actual dates). But to what end?

I think it is best to simply read the biblical account as the writers describing what they saw and experienced (as a testimony of events) without insisting on a specific day or date.

My choice? Friday crucifixion. But it would be dishonest of me to say it is imposdible it could not have been Thursday. We cannot know because "they" are not "us".

Now...if we were talking about the crucifixion occurring in the post-Temple era (Judiasm which does not center worship around the Temple), it would be much easier. But we are not and cannot impose modern Judaism onto ancient 1st century Hebrew practices.


The question I have is what benefit can be gained over speculating about what cannot be definitively known?

The danger is some may choose a definite answer and become dogmatic over their assumptions to the detriment of the gospel of Jesus Christ (they may become legalistic and inadvertently create a myth that divorces Christ from actual historical events).

 

[37818]

We are not agreeing on how the days work in Jewish time.

I'm repeating myself over and over, so it seems we are wasting each other's time.

So to each his own as my Dad would say. I agree to disagree.

What we need to agree on is where and what we are disagreeing on.

 

[Charlie24]

I pulled up something I think may help define what time the evening of the 14th of Nisan occurred.

I think maybe this is our misunderstanding.

The evening of the 14th of Nisan (Passover) refers to the time "between the two evenings," interpreted by historical and Temple records as the afternoon of the 14th, specifically between 3:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m. (the ninth to eleventh hours). This period was when the Passover lamb was sacrificed, immediately before sunset.

• Interpretation of "Evening" (14th): While some interpret this as the start of the 14th (sunset), historical records from Josephus and the Talmud confirm that the slaughter occurred in the afternoon, between high noon and sunset, to be roasted and eaten that night.
• Alternative View: Some interpretations, particularly those adhering to Karaites or Sadducees traditions, hold that "between the evenings" refers to the twilight period immediately after sunset at the very beginning of the 14th.
• The Meal: The Passover lamb was eaten during the night of the 14th (running into the 15th), often associated with the early hours (6 p.m. to 2-3 a.m.).

In 2026, the 14th of Nisan begins at sunset on April 2, with the afternoon of the 14th falling on Friday, April 3.

Now which interpretation are you using for the evening of the 14th of Nisan?

 

[Charlie24]

Now which interpretation are you using for the evening of the 14th of Nisan?

I'm wondering if you hold the view of Josephus and Talmud, or the alternative view.

I hold the former while I believe you hold the latter.

 

[37818]

.

I pulled up something I think may help define what time the evening of the 14th of Nisan occurred.

I think maybe this is our misunderstanding.

The evening of the 14th of Nisan (Passover) refers to the time "between the two evenings," interpreted by historical and Temple records as the afternoon of the 14th, specifically between 3:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m. (the ninth to eleventh hours). This period was when the Passover lamb was sacrificed, immediately before sunset.

• Interpretation of "Evening" (14th): While some interpret this as the start of the 14th (sunset), historical records from Josephus and the Talmud confirm that the slaughter occurred in the afternoon, between high noon and sunset, to be roasted and eaten that night.
• Alternative View: Some interpretations, particularly those adhering to Karaites or Sadducees traditions, hold that "between the evenings" refers to the twilight period immediately after sunset at the very beginning of the 14th.
• The Meal: The Passover lamb was eaten during the night of the 14th (running into the 15th), often associated with the early hours (6 p.m. to 2-3 a.m.).
  

In 2026, the 14th of Nisan begins at sunset on April 2, with the afternoon of the 14th falling on Friday, April 3.

6 days before placing Nisan 8th on the 7th day Sabbath.
John 12:1-2, . . . There they made him a supper; and Martha served: . . .

 

[37818]

I'm wondering if you hold the view of Josephus and Talmud, or the alternative view.

I hold the former while I believe you hold the latter.

I am ignorant here.