God's Wisdom versus Earthly, Sensual, and Demonic Wisdom about Instrumental Music

[Martin Marprelate]

Just so I am clear about your views, do you deny that human skull drums are musical instruments? Do you deny that they are ungodly in and of themselves?

I do not see anywhere in the Bible that a drum is, in and of itself, ungodly. If you do, be sure and let me know. Many drums are, or used to be, made from animal skins. Many people wear sheepskin coats. I have never heard anyone say that they are ungodly, though perhaps a vegan might.
I have never seen nor heard of before a musical instrument of any kind being made of human parts except in this 17th Century folk song which involves a harp being made from an unfortunate lady's breastbone.

Pentangle – Cruel Sister

[Verse 1] / There lived a lady by the North Sea shore / Lay the bent to the bonnie broom / Two daughters were the babes she bore / Fa, la-la-la, la, la-la, la, la, la / [Verse 2

genius.com

If I knew of such a thing happening today, I would call the police.

 

[Charlie24]

I do not see anywhere in the Bible that a drum is, in and of itself, ungodly. If you do, be sure and let me know. Many drums are, or used to be, made from animal skins. Many people wear sheepskin coats. I have never heard anyone say that they are ungodly, though perhaps a vegan might.
I have never seen nor heard of before a musical instrument of any kind being made of human parts except in this 17th Century folk song which involves a harp being made from an unfortunate lady's breastbone.

Pentangle – Cruel Sister

[Verse 1] / There lived a lady by the North Sea shore / Lay the bent to the bonnie broom / Two daughters were the babes she bore / Fa, la-la-la, la, la-la, la, la, la / [Verse 2

genius.com

If I knew of such a thing happening today, I would call the police.

I guess it was about 4-5 years ago I was on vacation out of state and I visit the local Baptist Church that Sun. morning.

I walked in the front door and was greeted and when i began looking for a seat I seen the drums on stage.

I walked out and went fishing early that morning. I guess I'm old school but I can't tolerate that ungodly noise.

 

[Charlie24]

I guess it was about 4-5 years ago I was on vacation out of state and I visit the local Baptist Church that Sun. morning.

I walked in the front door and was greeted and when i began looking for a seat I seen the drums on stage.

I walked out and went fishing early that morning. I guess I'm old school but I can't tolerate that ungodly noise.

Cathode, why does the Church have statues and paintings of angels?

Do you worship them or are they just buddies in case you need them?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I guess it was about 4-5 years ago I was on vacation out of state and I visit the local Baptist Church that Sun. morning.

I walked in the front door and was greeted and when i began looking for a seat I seen the drums on stage.

I walked out and went fishing early that morning. I guess I'm old school but I can't tolerate that ungodly noise.

I tend to agree with you. I dislike rock bands in church. However, I find it more difficult to say that they should be banned in every church. As I have said, there are no musical instruments mentioned in the N.T. I know some folk who take that to mean that there should be none in church. My position is to say that if musical accompaniment is doing more than keeping the singing in time and in tune, it is doing too much.

 

[Deacon]

I can't say I've ever fully appreciated drums in church until recently.
During the service, the drummer and his family sits right in front of me, in the 4th row of chairs in church, nice guy.

Last week we sang a particularly lively song and when he returned to his seat, I commented to him that during that song I expected him at any moment to break out into a drum solo.
What a blessing I get listening to him play!

Perhaps you don't like drums because you've never listened to someone play them well!

Rob

 

[Charlie24]

I tend to agree with you. I dislike rock bands in church. However, I find it more difficult to say that they should be banned in every church. As I have said, there are no musical instruments mentioned in the N.T. I know some folk who take that to mean that there should be none in church. My position is to say that if musical accompaniment is doing more than keeping the singing in time and in tune, it is doing too much.

When I was in the Army many moons ago I dated a girl that invited me to her Pentecostal Church.

That was my introduction to the drums in worship service.

All I could hear was that guy beating on the drums, all I could see was people falling on the floor rolling around like animals.

 

[Charlie24]

I can't say I've ever fully appreciated drums in church until recently.
During the service, the drummer and his family sits right in front of me, in the 4th row of chairs in church, nice guy.

Last week we sang a particularly lively song and when he returned to his seat, I commented to him that during that song I expected him at any moment to break out into a drum solo.
What a blessing I get listening to him play!

Perhaps you don't like drums because you've never listened to someone play them well!

Rob

You could be right.

I like the rule in our Church, don't let it in and it can't get out of control.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Thank you for letting me know of your agreement with this very important point that is plainly in keeping with the teaching of Scripture about what sinful humans who hate God are:

Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Sadly, many Christians believe that what the Spirit means here is the following: "inventors of evil things except, of course, for musical instruments and kinds of instrumental music, none of which can be evil, disobedient to parents . . ."

i had to step back in to say this. Ah! I finally GET IT!! After well over 100 posts and mind-boggling statements, I get what you are saying - well NOT saying, but covertly suggesting. You hate drums in church and probably guitars and more, but for some reason you would never state it.

We've had to go around and around in circles with you never coming out with your intended meaning and having to guess at what you mean.

I see now with this post of yours. "Inventors of evil things" - you believe inanimate objects can be evil in and of themselves. That's how you interpret Paul's words in Romans 1:30

You believe that humans skulls anointed with bodily sexual fluids are the EXACT same "thing" as a drum sold in a music store ergo, drums played in marching bands and church and studios must be as demonic and evil as the skull.

But YOU wouldn't say that. You wanted US to say it.

You believe Paul, in Romans 1, to be listing over 20 evil ways of being or doing or thinking or behaving and 1 way of making inanimate objects possess evil in their lifelessness.

That Greek phrase is this: ἐφευρετὰς κακῶν and is pronounced "ef-yoo-ret'-ace ka' -kos".

It quite literally means "inventors [of] evil". The second word, "ka'-kos" is found in the Bible 51 time. I've looked at all of the places in the King James and only Romans 1:30 interprets it as "evil things" - the rest in the King James only says "evil". More modern versions based on earlier manuscripts do not say "things" in that verse.

I admire the King James and was raised on it. But it is a translation just like other translations. It's a good one, but not a perfect one.

I am going to have to differ with you. I do not believe that inanimate objects can be evil. Not a baseball bat, spoon, drum, ball of yarn, car, camera, hairbrush, or jar of pickle. They can be used for evil by an evil human with an evil heart, but they do not possess evil in them. They do not possess divinity.

God's Word tells us what inanimate objects possess. NOTHING!! People worship them sometimes, but they, so says the Bible, "cannot speak, cannot hear, cannot walk, cannot use hands, cannot see" and are powerless to save.

Paul is not talking about drums in church. He is speaking about people who invent new ways to commit evil.

I'm just sorry that it took me this long to figure out you are talking about drums in church and trying to goad us into agreeing with you.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You could be right.

I like the rule in our Church, don't let it in and it can't get out of control.

THAT could apply to literally anything. That is a very flimsy rule. It could apply to an organist who plays too loud or a preacher who misquotes the Bible all the time.

As I've said earlier, I can never tell when you are joking, especially when you said you walked into a church one time and saw Pentecostal people rolling around on the floor when the drums played or when you went into a new church, saw the drums and turned around and walked out.

I'm not advocating drums in church. Many people don't like ANY instruments in church and while I disagree, I won't argue with them. I'm just trying to say that inanimate objects are not and cannot be evil. It's the heart of the human being where evil resides and who can use "things" for evil or use them incompetently.

 

[Charlie24]

THAT could apply to literally anything. That is a very flimsy rule. It could apply to an organist who plays too loud or a preacher who misquotes the Bible all the time.

As I've said earlier, I can never tell when you are joking, especially when you said you walked into a church one time and saw Pentecostal people rolling around on the floor when the drums played or when you went into a new church, saw the drums and turned around and walked out.

I'm not advocating drums in church. Many people don't like ANY instruments in church and while I disagree, I won't argue with them. I'm just trying to say that inanimate objects are not and cannot be evil. It's the heart of the human being where evil resides and who can use "things" for evil or use them incompetently.

That could be said of a handgun, totally harmless until it's taken in hand.

As far as the rule of no drums and guitars, etc. you wouldn't understand if I explained it.

That being you don't want to understand.

 

[Scarlett O.]

That could be said of a handgun, totally harmless until it's taken in hand.

As far as the rule of no drums and guitars, etc. you wouldn't understand if I explained it.

That being you don't want to understand.

That is so very wrong.

 

[Charlie24]

That is so very wrong.

Sounds like your problem, Scarlet, not mine.

 

[Salty]

As I've said earlier, I can never tell when you are joking, especially when you said you walked into a church one time and saw Pentecostal people rolling around on the floor when the drums played or when you went into a new church, saw the drums and turned around and walked out.

Not to be off topic - but he could be referring to "being slain in the spirit"Slain in the Spirit - Wikipedia
(so I am starting a new thread)

As far as the rule of no drums and guitars, etc. you wouldn't understand if I explained it.

Well explain it anyways!
1) she might understand
2) others may want to understand.

and just because someone understands does not mean they agree with you

 

[Charlie24]

Not to be off topic - but he could be referring to "being slain in the spirit"Slain in the Spirit - Wikipedia
(so I am starting a new thread)

Well explain it anyways!
1) she might understand
2) others may want to understand.

and just because someone understands does not mean they agree with you

Hey, if you guys want drums in your worship service have at it, no problem for me.

I don't like it myself, but it seens you guys can't accept that!

 

[JesusFan]

Hey, if you guys want drums in your worship service have at it, no problem for me.

I don't like it myself, but it seens you guys can't accept that!

This topic reminded me of the fact that years ago was friends with a local Christian book dealer, who was a church of Christ elder, and every week he would get some elders of fellow church of Christ come into his store and get him in a corner and ask if he and his church had yet repented about devil music, as theirs was no instruments, while his allowed for drums, trumpets, pianos etc

 

[Charlie24]

This topic reminded me of the fact that years ago was friends with a local Christian book dealer, who was a church of Christ elder, and every week he would get some elders of fellow church of Christ come into his store and get him in a corner and ask if he and his church had yet repented about devil music, as theirs was no instruments, while his allowed for drums, trumpets, pianos etc

I've been in IFB Church all my life, 2 different Churches.

Neither allowed drums or electric guitars, the one I'm in now does allow acoustic guitars in some cases.

I've been in Churches that have those instruments and I didn't like it, in my opinion it took from the spiritual aspect.

After a few times of that I made it a rule for myself I will not stay for the service if see those instruments on the platform.

One time, lol, I was out of town going to Church Sun. morning and stepped out of my truck and heard the drums from the parking lot.

I got right back in the truck and went for lunch.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Hey, if you guys want drums in your worship service have at it, no problem for me.

I don't like it myself, but it seens you guys can't accept that!

And I said, I am not advocating drums in church. You don't like them, fine.

The OP seems to have much more than a preference for not having them. He believes it demonic. He believes the inanimate can be evil.

You have called it rebellion. I just don't understand.

 

[Charlie24]

And I said, I am not advocating drums in church. You don't like them, fine.

The OP seems to have much more than a preference for not having them. He believes it demonic. He believes the inanimate can be evil.

You have called it rebellion. I just don't understand.

I know what he's doing and I agree! He's nipping it in the bud.

Abstaining from all appearance of evil.

You may laugh, but some folks take this very seriously.

It's old school, I know, but it is what it is for many.

 

[Charlie24]

I know what he's doing and I agree! He's nipping it in the bud.

Abstaining from all appearance of evil.

You may laugh, but some folks take this very seriously.

It's old school, I know, but it is what it is for many.

You'll hear many of this sort speaking of the "old paths wherein is the good way" that Jeremiah spoke of.

In fact, you've probably heard me speak of it a few times.

 

[Charlie24]

You'll hear many of this sort speaking of the "old paths wherein is the good way" that Jeremiah spoke of.

In fact, you've probably heard me speak of it a few times.

I don't want anyone angry with me and I know this is a touchy subject and I say to each to his own.

But while we're on the subject, let me say something I hope no one will take offensive.

Back in the mid to late 50's rock and roll started and really came on the scene in the 60's/70's.

The Church went into a frenzy over that beat, and the drums, they were calling it a device of Satan.

Now it's the norm in the Church and no one is saying anything.