The "D" Chart: Part Deux

[SovereignGrace]

@Ascetic X

Quoted by @Ascetic X
This destruction of the temple is not what the verse refers to.

Sure it is. In every instance "soon" is used, it means "soon" not millennia later.

Quoted by @Ascetic X
You seem to possess an anti-Semitic bias.

What is up with you and @Charlie24 with all these claims against me that are baseless, meritless, and without claim? Why must you lay charges against me that are unfounded? I have never posted one thing that even approaches antisemitism. Oh, and by the way, John the Baptist [Matthew 3:7] and Jesus Christ [Matthew 12:34 and [Matthew 23:33] called the Jews a brood of vipers, in other words, "You snakes!" I guess they are both antisemitic as well, right? I guess God is an antisemite with all the times He called Israel Sodom, Gomorrah, Egypt, et al?

Quoted by @Ascetic X

Saying Israel is the harlot Babylon in Revelation and now equating Jews with Satan.

For your information, I did not refer to the harlot in Revelation 17 as being an allusion to Israel, John did. The Jews were doing the work of Satan when they sought Jesus Christ's life. So, yes, Israel is the harlot and the Jews did the work of Satan, even when they went from city to city persecuting Jewish Christians.

Quoted by @Ascetic X

I do not see Satan crushed yet,

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.[Romans 16:20][/quote]

Luke 18:8	I tell you, he will vindicate them without delay; but will the Son of Man, when he comes, find faith on earth?”
Acts 12:7	And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared, and a light shone in the cell. He struck the side of Peter and woke him, saying, “Get up quickly.” And the chains fell off his hands.
Acts 22:18	and I saw him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem [pb]quickly[/b], because they will not accept your testimony about me.’
Acts 25:4	So then Festus replied that Paul was being kept at Caesarea but that he himself intended to go there shortly.
Romans 16:20	The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
1 Timothy 3:14	I am writing these things to you, even though I am hoping to come to you quickly,
Revelation 1:1	The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Revelation 22:6	And he said to me, “These words are reliable and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show to his servants what must soon take place.”

Forms of the word
Dictionary:
ἐγγύς

Greek transliteration:
engys

Simplified transliteration:
engys

Numbers
Strong's number:
1451

GK Number:
1584

Gloss:

near, close

Definition:
some view as an improper prep., followed by gen. or dat., near, as to place, Lk. 19:11; close at hand, Rom. 10:8; near, in respect of ready interposition, Phil. 4:5; near, as to time, Mt. 24:32, 33; near to God, as being in covenant with him, Eph. 2:13; οἱ ἐγγύς, the people near to God, the Jews, Eph. 2:17

ἐγγύς

some view as an improper prep., followed by gen. or dat., near, as to place, Lk. 19:11; close at hand, Rom. 10:8; near, in respect of ready interposition, Phil. 4:5; near, as to time, Mt. 24:32, 33; near to God, as being in covenant with him, Eph. 2:13; οἱ ἐγγύς, the people near to God, the...

www.billmounce.com

"Soon" can in no way, shape, form, or fashion, mean anything but soon, close at hand, and it does not mean millennia later, no matter how hard one tries to make say so.

 

[Salty]

didnt think this part Deux would start so SOON!

 

[SovereignGrace]

didnt think this part Deux would start so SOON!

You closed t'other one afore I could get in a response, so I just started anutter'n.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I asked ChatGPT this: Failed dispensationalist prophecies from the 1970's? (and yes, I realize its AI and may not be 100% accurate, but I figure its pert neer it)

1. Hal Lindsey – “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970)

Claim: Lindsey suggested that a series of geopolitical events (such as the rise of the European Common Market, Israel’s 1948 rebirth, and the Cold War tensions) indicated that the end times were imminent. Some readers interpreted this as predicting the rapture and tribulation within their lifetimes.

Outcome: No rapture or tribulation occurred in the 1970s. The book did inspire a generation of evangelical futurists but its time-specific predictions failed.

2. Pat Robertson – Predictions on Israel and Armageddon

Claim: On his television program and in writings, Robertson frequently tied current Middle East conflicts (including the Yom Kippur War of 1973) to biblical prophecy, sometimes suggesting that the “end of the age” was near.

Outcome: None of these specific apocalyptic events occurred in the predicted timeframe.

3. “The Omega Code” / Charles F. “Chuck” Missler type predictions

Claim: Certain dispensationalist authors in the late 1960s–1970s predicted the rapture or Armageddon in the 1970s, often citing numerology, Israel, or political developments as signs.

Outcome: The predicted rapture or world-altering events did not happen.

4. Hal Lindsey’s Date Speculations

Lindsey himself avoided giving an exact date, but many interpreters of his work fixated on the 1970s or early 1980s as the “generation” of the end times due to his interpretation of Israel’s rebirth in 1948 (using a “70-year generation” logic).

Outcome: Again, no rapture, tribulation, or second coming occurred during this period.

Why these failed

Many of these prophecies depended on literalist readings of Daniel, Revelation, and Ezekiel, combined with contemporary events.

They often relied on speculative timelines or symbolic interpretations treated as literal (e.g., the “70 weeks” prophecy, the number of years from Israel’s rebirth).

Dispensationalist futurism is flexible, so when prophecies failed, some adherents reinterpreted them rather than abandoning the framework entirely.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It this said this to me: "If you want, I can make a chronological list of every major 1970s dispensationalist prophecy that failed, including the exact predicted dates and the leaders who made them—it’s pretty fascinating to see how specific some of them were."

Do you want me to make that list?

Here’s a detailed chronological list of major dispensationalist prophecies from the 1970s that failed, including the predicted dates, proponents, and outcomes. I’ve focused on the most influential figures and their specific claims:

1970

Hal Lindsey – “The Late Great Planet Earth” (book published in 1970)

Prediction: Interpreters of Lindsey’s work often believed the rapture and tribulation would occur within a generation after Israel’s 1948 rebirth—i.e., the 1970s or early 1980s.

Prophecy Basis: Israel’s rebirth = start of a prophetic “generation” (70 years).

Outcome: No rapture or tribulation occurred. Lindsey later clarified he never gave an exact date.

1973

Pat Robertson – Yom Kippur War “End Times” interpretation

Prediction: Robertson tied the 1973 Middle East conflict to signs of the approaching Armageddon. Some viewers believed the world-ending events were imminent.

Prophecy Basis: Fulfillment of Ezekiel and Daniel prophecies via geopolitical events in Israel and surrounding nations.

Outcome: War ended normally, no apocalyptic events occurred.

Mid-1970s

Jack Van Impe – “End Times” broadcasts

Prediction: Van Impe frequently suggested that the rapture and tribulation were imminent due to increasing Cold War tensions, Israel-related prophecies, and global moral decay.

Prophecy Basis: Literal reading of Revelation, linking contemporary events (e.g., Soviet Union, Middle East crises) to prophecy.

Outcome: None of the predicted rapture events occurred in the mid-1970s.

Hal Lindsey & Tim LaHaye (pre-“Left Behind”) lectures and articles

Prediction: They implied the rapture could occur in the 1970s–1980s, with the establishment of a global government (often tied to the European Common Market) as a precursor to the Antichrist.

Outcome: European integration continued at a normal pace; no tribulation, no rapture.

1975 (Most Famous “Failed Date”)

William Branham (posthumously referenced by some followers)

Prediction: Certain Branham followers interpreted his 1970s sermons as predicting the rapture in 1975.

Outcome: Nothing occurred in 1975.

Late 1970s

Hal Lindsey – European Common Market & Middle East Prophecy

Prediction: Lindsey suggested that the final Antichrist and world government could arise in the late 1970s based on the “European Beast” prophecy.

Outcome: European integration happened slowly; no one became an identifiable “Antichrist” figure; no tribulation occurred.

Patterns Across the 1970s

Most predictions were loosely date-specific, often linked to:

Israel’s rebirth in 1948

A “generation” prophecy (usually 70 years)

Geopolitical crises (Cold War, Middle East wars)

European political integration as the “Beast” precursor

Outcome: No prophecy came true, though these predictions significantly boosted evangelical interest in eschatology.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Here’s a clear table of failed dispensationalist prophecies from the 1970s, showing dates, proponents, predicted events, and what actually happened:

Year Proponent Predicted Event Basis of Prophecy Outcome

1970 Hal Lindsey Rapture and tribulation possibly within a generation Israel’s rebirth in 1948 as start of a 70-year prophetic “generation” No rapture or tribulation occurred

1973 Pat Robertson Imminent Armageddon tied to the Yom Kippur War Ezekiel & Daniel prophecies, geopolitical events in Israel War ended normally; no apocalyptic events

Mid-1970s Jack Van Impe Rapture and tribulation imminent due to Cold War & Israel tensions Literal reading of Revelation, current events interpreted as fulfillment No rapture or tribulation occurred

Mid-1970s Hal Lindsey & Tim LaHaye Rise of global government (Antichrist) and rapture in late 1970s European Common Market & biblical prophecy of the Beast European integration proceeded normally; no tribulation or Antichrist figure appeared

1975 William Branham followers Rapture in 1975 Interpretation of Branham’s sermons Nothing occurred in 1975

Late 1970s Hal Lindsey Antichrist emergence and tribulation European “Beast” prophecy No Antichrist figure; no tribulation

Key Takeaways:

Most predictions were loosely tied to dates (Israel 1948 + “generation,” geopolitical crises).

No prophecy came true, but these works hugely influenced 1970s evangelical culture.

Many authors later reinterpreted the timing rather than abandoning dispensationalist frameworks.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Failed predictions of the late Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" book:

The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) by Hal Lindsey made a number of predictions that were interpreted—or understood by readers—as time-specific prophecies. Most of them did not happen, though Lindsey often avoided giving exact dates himself. Here’s a detailed summary:

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1. Imminent Rapture and Tribulation​

• Prediction: Many readers interpreted Lindsey’s timeline as implying the rapture and seven-year tribulation could occur within a generation of Israel’s rebirth in 1948, i.e., in the 1970s or early 1980s.
• Outcome: No rapture, tribulation, or apocalypse occurred.

---

2. Rise of a European “Beast” / Global Government​

• Prediction: Lindsey suggested that the European Common Market (now the EU) could become the foundation of a global dictatorship led by the Antichrist.
• Outcome: The EU did expand over decades, but there was no global government or single Antichrist figure.

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3. Israel as the Center of End-Time Conflicts​

• Prediction: Lindsey linked Israel’s rebirth and Middle East wars (e.g., the 1967 Six-Day War and the 1973 Yom Kippur War) to the prophetic stage-setting for Armageddon.
• Outcome: While conflicts continued, they did not lead to Armageddon, rapture, or literal fulfillment of the apocalyptic scenario Lindsey described.

---

4. “Signs in the Sky” / Natural Disasters​

• Prediction: Lindsey cited solar activity, eclipses, and natural disasters as signs of the approaching end times.
• Outcome: None of these events triggered the rapture or world-ending prophecy; the events were natural cycles, not fulfillment of prophecy.

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5. The “Generation” Theory​

• Prediction: Lindsey popularized the idea that a generation from Israel’s 1948 rebirth would witness the end times (interpreted as ~70 years).
• Outcome: No rapture or tribulation occurred within that timeframe (1948 + 70 ≈ 2018), and even by that year, the predicted global apocalyptic events had not happened.

---

Summary​

• Lindsey’s book didn’t predict exact calendar dates, but the timeline and geopolitical interpretation led millions of readers to expect the rapture and tribulation soon.
• All events interpreted as imminent end-times fulfillment in the 1970s–1980s failed, yet the book remained massively influential and is still cited in evangelical futurism today.

Between 28 and 35 million copies were sold to unsuspecting victims.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Hal Lindsey’s 1975 book There’s a New World Coming: An In‑Depth Analysis of the Book of Revelation made a series of predictions and interpretations based on his dispensationalist reading of Revelation. Many of these were time-sensitive or presented as “imminent” events and ultimately did not occur. Here’s a breakdown of the main failed prophecies or speculative predictions from that book:

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1. The Imminent Rapture​

• Prediction: Lindsey suggested that the rapture could occur “soon,” based on the fulfillment of Revelation’s sequences combined with contemporary events (Cold War tensions, Israel’s geopolitical position, and global moral decay).
• Outcome: No rapture occurred in the 1970s, 1980s, or within any of the timelines readers inferred.

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2. Rise of the Antichrist​

• Prediction: He identified a European-based global power (linked to the European Common Market) as a likely seat for the Antichrist’s future reign. Lindsey implied this could happen within the coming decade.
• Outcome: No single European leader became a world-dominating Antichrist figure, and no totalitarian global empire arose.

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3. Tribulation within Readers’ Lifetimes​

• Prediction: Lindsey presented Revelation’s tribulation as a near-future, literal seven-year period, suggesting it could occur before the end of the 20th century.
• Outcome: The seven-year tribulation described in Revelation did not occur.

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4. Geopolitical Signs as Fulfillment of Prophecy​

• Prediction: Lindsey linked specific 1970s events—like the Cold War, OPEC oil crises, the Yom Kippur War, and the rise of the European Common Market—to fulfillments of Revelation’s “signs of the end.”
• Outcome: While these events happened historically, they did not trigger rapture, tribulation, Armageddon, or the Second Coming.

---

5. Israel’s Central Role in End-Times​

• Prediction: The book emphasized Israel as the center of prophetic fulfillment, claiming that future wars involving Israel would directly lead to global apocalypse.
• Outcome: While Israel continued to face conflicts, none led to global apocalyptic events as described.

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Summary of Failures​

• Most predictions were loosely time-bound, implying “imminence” rather than specifying exact years.
• Readers interpreted these events as “likely in the 1970s or early 1980s,” but none of the key events—rapture, tribulation, Antichrist, or Armageddon—occurred.
• Like The Late Great Planet Earth, the book boosted interest in eschatology, despite the failure of its more literal or time-sensitive interpretations.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then there was this dandy of a book written by John Hagee:

Here’s a clear breakdown of the **prophetic claims from Four Blood Moons by John Hagee that are widely considered failed prophecies or expectations that didn’t come to pass by the time frames implied in the book:

1. “Something Big” Was Supposed to Happen by the End of the Tetrad (2014–2015)​

Hagee’s central prophetic claim was that a series of four total lunar eclipses (a “tetrad”) on Jewish feast days in 2014–2015 signified that a major world‑changing event was imminent—often interpreted by readers as a prophetic fulfillment connected to Israel or the end times.
What happened: The four blood moons occurred on April 15, 2014; October 8, 2014; April 4, 2015; and September 28, 2015—but no specific world‑changing prophetic event tied to biblical end times unfolded during or immediately after this period.


Many critics note that while the eclipses happened, the “sign” of immediate end‑times fulfillment did not materialize, making the implied prophetic expectation effectively unfulfilled.

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2. Expectation (by Readers) of End‑Times or Apocalypse​

Although Hagee was more cautious than some others (e.g., Mark Biltz) and didn’t explicitly say “Jesus will return by 2015,” many readers took his framing to imply apocalyptic or transitional fulfillment in that window because:

• He tied the tetrad to previous historical “significant moments” in Jewish history (1492, 1949, 1967).
• He emphasized that “something big” was about to happen because God was signaling through the heavens.

What happened: Nothing clearly prophetic in the sense of fulfilling end‑times scripture (e.g., rapture, Armageddon, tribulation) happened in 2014–2015. More mundane geopolitical or regional events occurred, but no unmistakable biblical end‑time event unfolded as many readers inferred.

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3. Claim That the 2014–2015 Tetrad Was Unusually Unique and Prophetic​

Hagee highlighted that past blood‑moon tetrads that aligned with Jewish feast days happened around major Jewish historical events—and implied this one would likewise herald something important.


However:

• Astronomers and skeptics point out that tetrads aren’t rare, especially when viewed over long spans of years, and are not inherently linked to Jewish holidays as Hagee portrayed.
• Predictions of biblical significance from these events did not occur in the way many readers expected.

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4. Misinterpretations Behind the Prophecy​

Scholars and commentators argue the premise itself was flawed:

• The lunar eclipses are natural, predictable phenomena, not unique divine signals especially tied to Jewish festivals.
• The way the biblical texts (Joel 2:31 in particular) were applied to the tetrad was debated and criticized because the scriptures speak of cosmic signs before the day of the Lord, not a specific low‑latitude series of eclipses.

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Summary of Failed/Unfulfilled Expectations​

Prophetic Expectation	Outcome
Four blood moons indicate an imminent, world‑changing prophetic event	No clearly identifiable world‑changing prophetic event happened during or immediately after the 2014–2015 tetrad.
The tetrad is uniquely significant to end‑times prophecy	Astronomical and historical evidence does not support uniqueness or intrinsic prophetic meaning.
Implication (to some readers) of end times around 2014–2015	End times events (rapture, tribulation, etc.) did not occur then.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The book Armageddon: Appointment with Destiny by Grant R. Jeffrey (first published in 1988, expanded later) became a best-selling end-times prophecy book. However, several of its time-based predictions or expectations did not occur, which critics point to as failures.


Here are the main ones:

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Major Failed Predictions from Armageddon: Appointment with Destiny​

1. The end of the “last days” around the year 2000​

Jeffrey used a theory that human history would last about 6,000 years followed by Christ’s millennial kingdom.


He argued that this timeline pointed toward around the year 2000 as the end of the current age.


Some passages even suggested the kingdom might begin around October 9, 2000.


Result:

• The year 2000 passed with none of the predicted end-time events.

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2. Expectation that the current generation would see the end​

Jeffrey linked biblical prophecy to the modern state of Israel (founded in 1948).
He argued that the generation alive after Israel’s rebirth would likely see the final events leading to Armageddon.


Result:

• More than 75 years after 1948, the predicted sequence of events (tribulation, Armageddon, second coming) has not happened.

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3. Prophetic timelines using “Jubilee years”​

Jeffrey tried to calculate prophetic timing using Jewish Jubilee cycles and feast days.


He proposed that many major events in Israel’s history occurred on biblical feast days and that future prophetic events would follow similar patterns.


Criticism:

• These patterns are widely viewed by scholars as selective or coincidental rather than predictive.

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4. Implied buildup to imminent Armageddon​

The book suggested that wars involving Israel and major world powers could soon escalate toward the final battle of Armageddon.


Result:

• While Middle East conflicts have occurred, no final prophetic war or global tribulation sequence has happened.

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Important nuance​

Jeffrey sometimes used cautious wording like “probable” or “suggests”, which allowed followers to argue that he was speculating rather than making a firm prophecy.


But critics note that the specific timeline centered around the year 2000 clearly failed.

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Summary


Main prediction failures tied to the book:

Prediction	Outcome
End-times climax around year 2000	Did not happen
Christ’s kingdom possibly beginning Oct 2000	Did not happen
Final events likely in the generation after 1948	Still not occurred
Prophetic timelines based on feast days	No confirmed fulfillment

 

[Jerome]

LOL, and recall that the 1689 London Baptist Confession goes so far as to finger the identity of the Antichrist - it's "the Pope in Rome"!

 

[SovereignGrace]

LOL, and recall that the 1689 London Baptist Confession goes so far as to finger the identity of the Antichrist - it's "the Pope in Rome"!

And I most certainly do not hold to that view.

 

[Marooncat79]

You big dummy. You forgot 88 Reasons Jesus will return in 1988! Then 89. Hahaha

 

[Marooncat79]

And Harold camping

 

[SovereignGrace]

You big dummy. You forgot 88 Reasons Jesus will return in 1988! Then 89. Hahaha

I posted that book in the thread already closed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And Harold camping

He kept moving the date and was wrong every time.

 

[Marooncat79]

I posted that book in the thread already closed.

My bad

 

[Aaron]

There's much behind Dispensationalism that isn't revealed by this chart. By far the most egregious offense is the thinking that Messiah's coming for the jews is yet a future thing, and that they haven't missed it; that the "Church Age," so called, is a parenthesis in the eternal plan of God. That really, we Christians are merely riding into the Kingdom of God on the jews' coattails.

Aren't we lucky the jews rejected Jesus?

The Messianic Kingdom is now. We are the true Jews whose circumcision is of the heart. We are the Israel of God, a nation of kings and priests.

The Book of Hebrews undoes Dispensationalism completely. It unravels every thread, wads each one up and tosses it into the fire. The Priesthood of Christ, which is not a Jewish priesthood, is the eternal plan of God. Sinai was the parentheses, not faith. And Sinai, which established the Hebrew nation, the Tabernacle, the Priesthood, and the offerings, was ended at the Cross.

So, as far as charts go, here is one based on the Book of Hebrews. This is the true representation of God's revelation to the world.

 

[Charlie24]

didnt think this part Deux would start so SOON!

LOL, I'm staying out of it! I posted a new thread Rev. 17 unaware that Deux had began.

Said all I wanted to say.

 

[SovereignGrace]

LOL, and recall that the 1689 London Baptist Confession goes so far as to finger the identity of the Antichrist - it's "the Pope in Rome"!

To be honest, I prefer the Westminster Confession of Faith, but they say the same thing in regards to the anti-Christ.