Dominion vs determinism

[KenH]

It is not true that those who do not trust Him or love Him may not come to do so.

Each person that God chose before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son to be their Surety will, in time, come under the hearing of the gospel of Christ, and God will open their hearts to receive the Word, and the Holy Spirit will regenerate them and grant them the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ on their behalf and the gift of repentance of the dead works they formerly trusted in.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I disagree with your synopsis.




I don’t believe in salvation to get salvation.
The new birth is salvation. You cannot have new life and not be saved. You can also not have salvation and not have new life. They are the same thing. Some people will disagree with me but regardless of how you separate them, they happen simultaneously. There is not a part of a second that you can have new life and not be saved.


You have essentially said the same thing twice except for free will.
Free will is only God given ability to be autonomous. Trusting Jesus is faith in Him. That is salvation. They are simultaneous. One does not come before or after the other.

Man is not autonomous, but fully relying on Him, for his inhaling and exhaling, for every heart beat the heart makes, for his food, clothes, water, life, family, &c.

 

[Ben1445]

Salvation is not the new birth, but is part and parcel of (new birth) salvation. The new birth is being born again, born from above. Salvation is being saved from their sins. They are not the same thing, but are mutually inclusive. No one is saved and not born again, neither is one born again and not saved.

Like I said, it doesn’t matter how you define them. If one is part of the other, they are the same thing. They certainly don’t happen at different times.
I’m not regenerated a year in advance of salvation so that I may take in the information of Christ into my heart.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Like I said, it doesn’t matter how you define them. If one is part of the other, they are the same thing. They certainly don’t happen at different times.
I’m not regenerated a year in advance of salvation so that I may take in the information of Christ into my heart.

I never said they were exclusive, but inclusive. They’re not the same thing in any way, shape, form or fashion. However, they do happen simultaneously.

 

[Ben1445]

Each person that God chose before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son to be their Surety will, in time, come under the hearing of the gospel of Christ, and God will open their hearts to receive the Word, and the Holy Spirit will regenerate them and grant them the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ on their behalf and the gift of repentance of the dead works they formerly trusted in.

Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world. We are chosen in Christ. We were not before the foundation of the world. We were not in Christ before the foundation of the world.
All have faith. Most in themselves. Some in Christ.
God has made all men the same. God is not a respecter of persons.

 

[Ben1445]

Man is not autonomous, but fully relying on Him, for his inhaling and exhaling, for every heart beat the heart makes, for his food, clothes, water, life, family, &c.

So the things you say you have no accountability for? God made you do it?

 

[KenH]

God has made all men the same.

God has made some His elect. God has made some reprobates. The elect are His sheep. The reprobates are the goats. A sheep cannot become a goat. A goat cannot become a sheep.

Now, when born, even the elect are in the same state as the reprobates, but their status was settled way back in eternity, and never changes but has been and always will be the same - elect of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So the things you say you have no accountability for? God made you do it?

Again, that’s not my point, nor what I. Man is accountable to God for every sin they commit. Look at Genesis 50:20, Isaiah 10, Acts 2:23, Acts 4:27-28. These wicked things they did, they did in accordance to God’s plans.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So the things you say you have no accountability for? God made you do it?

Look at our laws for instance. You go somewhere and you’re doing 40, but you’re unaware the speed limit is 25. You get pulled over and say you didn’t know it was a 25 MPH speed limit. Ignorance of the law does not absolve you of guilt. Those places I showed you shows that they freely did what they did, and can’t plead ignorance on the day of judgment.

 

[Ben1445]

God has made some His elect. God has made some reprobates. The elect are His sheep. The reprobates are the goats. A sheep cannot become a goat. A goat cannot become a sheep.

Now, when born, even the elect are in the same state as the reprobates, but their status was settled way back in eternity, and never changes but has been and always will be the same - elect of God.

Any may trust Christ and become the elect in Christ.

 

[Ben1445]

Look at our laws for instance. You go somewhere and you’re doing 40, but you’re unaware the speed limit is 25. You get pulled over and say you didn’t know it was a 25 MPH speed limit. Ignorance of the law does not absolve you of guilt. Those places I showed you shows that they freely did what they did, and can’t plead ignorance on the day of judgment.

So we have the ability to make our own decisions.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Any may trust Christ and become the elect in Christ.

No one becomes elect. They were elect before God said, “Let there be light.”

 

[Ben1445]

God has made some His elect. God has made some reprobates. The elect are His sheep. The reprobates are the goats. A sheep cannot become a goat. A goat cannot become a sheep.

Now, when born, even the elect are in the same state as the reprobates, but their status was settled way back in eternity, and never changes but has been and always will be the same - elect of God.

Romans 10:34-35
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

If it is not free to any and all, God must be a respecter of persons.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So we have the ability to make our own decisions.

Man makes choices freely every day. But what we are talking about is not whether to have bacon and eggs or a bagel with peanut butter for breakfast, or wearing a black belt with brown shoes , but can the unregenerate freely choose God while still in an unregenerate state. The Bible says they cannot do that.

 

[Ben1445]

No one becomes elect. They were elect before God said, “Let there be light.”

Christ was elect before let there be light.

Look it up. You won’t find the elect without Christ. Christ is the elect and we in Him.

Any man may be in Christ. Not all are or will be.

 

[Ben1445]

Man makes choices freely every day. But what we are talking about is not whether to have bacon and eggs or a bagel with peanut butter for breakfast, or wearing a black belt with brown shoes , but can the unregenerate freely choose God while still in an unregenerate state. The Bible says they cannot do that.

There is no other time it is most necessary!!

 

[KenH]

We were not before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 He hath chosen us.

And God places His elect in Christ (Galatians 3:27). Christ is God. Christ has always existed. God is eternal.

 

[Ben1445]

There is no other time it is most necessary!!

If I am spiritually alive I don’t need to find salvation.
It is the sinner who is told to believe. The regenerate already believe.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Romans 10:34-35
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

If it is not free to any and all, God must be a respecter of persons.

But the unregenerate cannot work righteousness, seeing his righteousness is filthy rags, per Isaiah 64:6. And they also do not fear Him, per Psalm 14, Psalm 36, and Romans 3. And it’s Acts not Romans.

 

[Ben1445]

Ephesians 1:4 He hath chosen us.

And God places His elect in Christ (Galatians 3:27). Christ is God. Christ has always existed. God is eternal.

According as he hath chosen us in him


Stop hacking apart the text to fit your beliefs.