Calvinism needs to add words to scripture

[Ascetic X]

Calvinism has its roots in a barbaric, ungodly, murderous attitude. Look at the man himself.

Calvin is heavily criticized for supporting the execution of theological opponent Michael Servetus, who was burned at the stake for heresy in Geneva. Contemporary critics and later observers often described Calvin as testy, stubborn, quick-tempered, and arrogant in his dealings with others.

During the 16th-century Reformation, John Calvin and his followers in Geneva, Switzerland, played a direct role in the execution of several individuals deemed theological opponents or heretics. While Calvin himself did not act as the executioner, he was a key figure in initiating trials and advocating for the death penalty against those who disagreed with his doctrinal positions.

Key Cases of Execution by Calvinists

• Michael Servetus (1553): The most prominent case, Servetus was a Spanish physician and theologian who rejected the Trinity and infant baptism. Having previously warned that he would not let Servetus leave Geneva alive, Calvin had him arrested in 1553. Servetus was burned at the stake, with Calvin advocating for a "more humane" method of execution (beheading) rather than burning, though this was not granted.
• Jacques Gruet (1547): A theological opponent who challenged Calvin's authority, Gruet was accused of being a "libertine" and for placing a letter in Calvin's pulpit calling him a hypocrite. He was arrested, tortured for a month, and ultimately beheaded.
• Other Executions: During the initial years of Calvin's influence in Geneva (population 13,000–20,000), various records indicate high numbers of executions, with 13 people hanged, 10 decapitated, and 35 burned between 1542-1564. Some reports indicate these included individuals convicted of witchcraft or spreading the plague.
• St. Fidelis of Sigmaringen (1622): In a later conflict, Calvinist soldiers in Switzerland stabbed to death St. Fidelis, a Catholic friar active in counter-reformation efforts.

Justification for Actions

Calvin, along with many other reformers of that era, did not believe in the separation of church and state. He followed Augustine’s interpretation of scripture, which justified extreme measures—such as burning heretics—to "compel" people to enter the church, as interpreted from Luke 14:23. Calvin believed that, as a "heretic" and "blasphemer," Servetus deserved to be executed, a view that was supported by various Protestant leaders in Switzerland at the time.

Exile of Dissenters

Beyond direct execution, Calvin also influenced the expulsion of opponents from Geneva, including:

• Jérôme-Hermès Bolsec (d. 1584): Exiled for challenging Calvin's doctrine of predestination.
• Sebastian Castellio (1515–1563): A scholar forced to leave Geneva due to conflicts with Calvin's strict interpretation of Scripture.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism has its roots in a barbaric, ungodly, murderous attitude. Look at the man himself.

Let’s not.

The 5 points of the Doctrines of Grace were created by the Synod of Dort (1616) in direct response to the 5 points of Arminianism … John Calvin (1509-1564) was DEAD by then, so the 5 points do not originate with Calvin (who was soft on Limited Atonement anyway).

The powerful German State Church (the Lutheran Church) believed that the later reformers of the Second Wave of the Reformation had discarded too much of the Catholic Tradition with their 5 Solas and rejection of things like veneration of Mary and used their control of the press to label the new reformers with the name “Calvinist” as an insult implying that they followed the teaching of a man (John Calvin) rather than the teaching of God (as prescribed in the Book of Concord of the Lutheran Church). This is exactly the same as the term “Christian” was first applied by the Romans and Jews to insult followers of “the Way” by claiming that they were “little Christs” following a man rather than the God of the OT or the Roman Pantheon.

”TULIP” (the acronym) was not created until the 20th Century to describe the 5 points from the Synod of Dort.

So the “man himself” (John Calvin) is 100% irrelevant except as one of many theologians active during the centuries of the Protestant Reformation [like Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, Philipp Melanchthon, Martin Bucer, John Knox, and Thomas Cranmer].

 

[Ascetic X]

Let’s not.


So the “man himself” (John Calvin) is 100% irrelevant except as one of many theologians active during the centuries of the Protestant Reformation [like Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, Philipp Melanchthon, Martin Bucer, John Knox, and Thomas Cranmer].

The man himself is very relevant when Calvin was a theologian who favored and initiated the execution, even burning at the stake and beheading, of his opponents. This murderous attitude says something about his spirituality and doctrines.

 

[atpollard]

The man himself is very relevant when Calvin was a theologian who favored and initiated the execution, even burning at the stake and beheading, of his opponents. This murderous attitude says something about his spirituality and doctrines.

… but HIS life says NOTHING about the 5 DOCTRINES OF GRACE created after he was already dead by an entire SYNOD of the entire Reformed Movement and named TULIP several centuries later.

Have you read what Martin Luther wrote about the Jews a century before John Calvin? Shall we condemn the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod because of what Luther wrote?

We better DAMN all Catholics for what the Catholic Church has done throughout history that makes Calvin seem like Mother Teresa by comparison!

 

[Ascetic X]

… but HIS life says NOTHING about the 5 DOCTRINES OF GRACE created after he was already dead by an entire SYNOD of the entire Reformed Movement and named TULIP several centuries later.

Have you read what Martin Luther wrote about the Jews a century before John Calvin? Shall we condemn the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod because of what Luther wrote?

We better DAMN all Catholics for what the Catholic Church has done throughout history that makes Calvin seem like Mother Teresa by comparison!

You go right ahead and accept the system of John Calvin, a theologian who favored and initiated the execution, even burning at the stake and beheading, of his opponents.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You go right ahead and accept the system of John Calvin, a theologian who favored and initiated the execution, even burning at the stake and beheading, of his opponents.

This is what is known in football (soccer) terms as "playing the man and not the ball." As I have pointed out many times before, Calvin was not the propagator of Calvinism. That was the Apostle Paul. But while Calvin was still in short pants, William Tyndale wrote: 'By grace we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and graffed into Christ, the root of all goodness. In Christ God loved us, his elect and chosen, before the world began, and reserved us unto the knowledge of his Son and of his holy gospel; and when the gospel is preached to us, openeth our hearts, and giveth us grace to believe, and putteth the Spirit of Christ in us.' William Tyndale, 'A Pathway into the Scriptures, c. 1525.

 

[Jerome]

Calvinism has its roots in a barbaric, ungodly, murderous attitude. Look at the man himself.

Let’s not.

The 5 points of the Doctrines of Grace were created by the Synod of Dort (1616) .… John Calvin (1509-1564) was DEAD by then, so the 5 points do not originate with Calvin

OK, the Synod of Dort...

On 13 May 1619, right as the Synod of Dort closed, a champion of the Arminians, Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, was executed! He had been imprisoned for the duration of the Synod of Dort, and was beheaded for ‘subversion of the country’s religion’ shortly after the Gomarists’ form of Calvinism was adopted by the Synod.

Even Ligonier Ministries admits persecuting him “was a shameful act against a Dutch patriot and one of the low points for Dutch Calvinists”:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190717063557/https://www.ligonier.org/blog/arminius-and-remonstrants/

 

[Jerome]

Dutch Calvinist partisans next turned their fury on the long-dead body of an associate of Oldenbarnevelt:

Persecution of Oldenbarnevelt, Grotius and Hogerbeets - Wikipedia

“The next sentence was pronounced on 15 May 1619 over Gilles van Ledenberg, who had been dead since the end of the previous September. Obviously, he could not be executed, but the judges declared in the verdict that he was ‘worthy of death’ and would so have been sentenced if he had been alive. His “exemplary sentence” was that his embalmed body would be hung from a gibbet"

Gilles van Ledenberg - Wikipedia

“It was left hanging for 21 days, and after it was taken down, it was buried....However, the same night a mob disinterred the corpse and threw it in a ditch. This caused sufficient revulsion to cause the Hof van Holland (the main Dutch court) to issue an injunction against further depredations. The body was later secretly reburied”

 

[Jerome]

”TULIP” (the acronym) was not created until the 20th Century to describe the 5 points from the Synod of Dort.

So the “man himself” (John Calvin) is 100% irrelevant except as one of many theologians active during the centuries of the Protestant Reformation

"'TULIP' (the acronym) was not created until the 20th century", you say?

Indeed.

The TULIP contrivance was devised in 1905 by Rev. Cleland Boyd McAfee of Lafayette Ave. Presbyterian Church in New York City!

McAfee is infamous for defending apostate missionary Pearl Buck!

Associated Press, April 18, 1933

Dr. Cleland B. McAfee, secretary of the Presbyterian Board of Foreign Missions, said Monday he believed the case of Mrs. Pearl S. Buck could be settled by an informal talk with her in the near future. Mrs. Buck, missionary and novelist, has been charged by some members of the denomination with holding doctrinal views not in accord with those of the church.

"I see no reason why everything should not be cleared up by a conversation," Dr. McAfee said. He declared Mrs. Buck had not been ordered to appear before the board's meeting to date and expressed a doubt that the body even would consider her case.

Calling the missionary, who is associated with her husband in work at Nanking University, China. "a very fine Christian worker," Dr. McAfee said Dr. J. Gresham Machen, of Westminster Theological Seminary, Philadelphia, who is preparing an overture to the Presbyterian general assembly asking for Mrs. Buck's removal, "has long been known as a critic of the board of foreign missions."

 

[Ben1445]

As I have pointed out many times before, Calvin was not the propagator of Calvinism. That was the Apostle Paul.

But this really is the point. Paul did not teach Calvinism.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This is not a selective application of righteousness. Adam sinned and all are made sinners.
Christ answered for all sin in Adam. The question is, are we yet in our sins and unbelief?

Romans 4:20
-- He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Romans 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

So Paul doesn’t preach a predetermined number of preselected believers. He preached to any and all the same message.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

The question is whether the righteous of Christ will be attributed to us or not. All sin is answered for. All persons are not imputed the righteousness of Christ because of their unbelief.

 

[atpollard]

"'TULIP' (the acronym) was not created until the 20th century", you say?

Indeed.

The TULIP contrivance was devised in 1905 by Rev. Cleland Boyd McAfee of Lafayette Ave. Presbyterian Church in New York City!

McAfee is infamous for defending apostate missionary Pearl Buck!

Associated Press, April 18, 1933

Like I stated, 1905 is the 20th Century (1901-2000).
The Synod of Dort wrote the 5 points in the 17th Century (1601-1700).

So the 5 points existed long before they were called “TULIP”.

 

[atpollard]

But this really is the point. Paul did not teach Calvinism.

John did:

“No one can come to Me [TOTAL INABILITY] unless the Father who sent Me [UNCONDITIONAL] draws him [IRRESISTIBLE]; and I will raise him up on the last day [PRESERVATION].” - John 6:44

Four of the five points found in a single verse.

[ T ] Who has the ability? “No one can come to Me”
[ U ] What is the Only condition? “unless the Father”
[ I ] Who will resist? “draws” is only a draw if they come, otherwise it is a “not draw” (fish in net, sword from sheath)
[ P ] Who will finish the race? “I will raise him up on the last day” The same “him” the Father draws, the Son will raise.

That just leaves the question of “Who did Jesus die for?”

[ L ] "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own, and My own know Me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.“ - John 10:14-15

 

[Brightfame52]

They assert that Christ did not die for everyone.

He didn't, He died exclusively for His Church He Loved and specifically gave Himself for and sanctified her Eph 5:25-26

1 John 2:2
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of those for whom Jesus died in the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL those for whom Jesus died should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have ALL men, those for whom Jesus died, to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Corinthians 5:19,20
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world of those for whom Jesus died unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you, those for whom Jesus died, in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men, those for whom Jesus died, every where to repent:

All those scriptures exclusively apply to the Church Eph 5:25-26

 

[atpollard]

OK, the Synod of Dort...

On 13 May 1619, right as the Synod of Dort closed, a champion of the Arminians, Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, was executed! He had been imprisoned for the duration of the Synod of Dort, and was beheaded for ‘subversion of the country’s religion’ shortly after the Gomarists’ form of Calvinism was adopted by the Synod.

Even Ligonier Ministries admits persecuting him “was a shameful act against a Dutch patriot and one of the low points for Dutch Calvinists”:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190717063557/https://www.ligonier.org/blog/arminius-and-remonstrants/

Thank you for illustrating the very reason why we BAPTISTS adopted the Baptist Distinctive of “Separation of Church and State” and why Rhode Island (founded as a Baptist Colony) was the only place that religious tolerance was found in the early colonies. You have illustrated what happens when a STATE CHURCH has its Doctrine enforced by Government and Civil Law. It is why ”legislating morality” will not work and the “Moral Majority” as a political movement was always a bad idea.

While you are enjoying making cheap criticisms of the Reformed “Church States” in the 17th Century, why don’t you take a few minutes to enlighten everyone on the alternatives. Tell us about the paragons of Christian Virtue that the Catholic “Church States” and the Lutheran “Church States” were in the 17th Century so we can see how this is truly a “Calvinist” problem rather than a 17th Century “State Church” problem.

Remember, they were all killing the “re-baptizers” who worshipped as WE HERE DO for believing in Credo-baptism and rejecting infant baptism as salvific.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

But this really is the point. Paul did not teach Calvinism.

But this really is the point; Paul did teach Calvinism, and so did the Lord Jesus.
Romans 8:28-30. 'And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestinated, these he also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.'
Romans 9:15-16. 'For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.....' [Read down to v.29]
Romans 11:28-29. 'Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.' [Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 1:2. 'To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are ['have been'] sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints...'
1 Corinthians 1:26-31. 'For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise....'[Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 2:14. 'But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'

I have run out of energy for this; there are probably dozens of them, and dozens more from the Lord Jesus (e.g. Luke 10:21-22). But I've just come back from preaching and I'm tired.

 

[Ben1445]

John did:

“No one can come to Me [TOTAL INABILITY] unless the Father who sent Me [UNCONDITIONAL] draws him [IRRESISTIBLE]; and I will raise him up on the last day [PRESERVATION].” - John 6:44

Four of the five points found in a single verse.

[ T ] Who has the ability? “No one can come to Me”
[ U ] What is the Only condition? “unless the Father”
[ I ] Who will resist? “draws” is only a draw if they come, otherwise it is a “not draw” (fish in net, sword from sheath)
[ P ] Who will finish the race? “I will raise him up on the last day” The same “him” the Father draws, the Son will raise.

That just leaves the question of “Who did Jesus die for?”

[ L ] "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own, and My own know Me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.“ - John 10:14-15

John taught that Jesus paid for all sin but does not impute Jesus righteousness to all men.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


While allowing that not all are saved even though all sin has been answered for.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[atpollard]

John taught that Jesus paid for all sin but does not impute Jesus righteousness to all men.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


While allowing that not all are saved even though all sin has been answered for.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I just checked again and John 6:44 is still there and still says what it says.
So your posted verses do not abrogate the verse that I presented.

… No one can come unless the Father draws.
… Those drawn are those raised on the last day (none lost).

[shrug]

 

[Ben1445]

But this really is the point; Paul did teach Calvinism, and so did the Lord Jesus.
Romans 8:28-30. 'And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestinated, these he also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.'
Romans 9:15-16. 'For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.....' [Read down to v.29]
Romans 11:28-29. 'Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.' [Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 1:2. 'To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are ['have been'] sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints...'
1 Corinthians 1:26-31. 'For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise....'[Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 2:14. 'But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'

I have run out of energy for this; there are probably dozens of them, and dozens more from the Lord Jesus (e.g. Luke 10:21-22). But I've just come back from preaching and I'm tired.

But this really is the point; Paul did teach Calvinism, and so did the Lord Jesus.
Romans 8:28-30. 'And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestinated, these he also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.'
Romans 9:15-16. 'For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.....' [Read down to v.29]
Romans 11:28-29. 'Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.' [Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 1:2. 'To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are ['have been'] sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints...'
1 Corinthians 1:26-31. 'For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise....'[Read the rest of the chapter]
1 Corinthians 2:14. 'But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'

I have run out of energy for this; there are probably dozens of them, and dozens more from the Lord Jesus (e.g. Luke 10:21-22). But I've just come back from preaching and I'm tired.

Calvinism doesn’t understand election.
Nobody is elected to forgiveness of sins.
Election has to do with the benefits of what comes after salvation. The people who are elected before anything are the people who are saved. Anyone may be saved. Everyone may be saved. There is no sin that has not already received an answer in the blood of Christ.
All will not be saved. But God is rich in mercy. He may not be considered rich were He to run out of mercy. God’s mercy is not limited by “while supplies last.” It is limited by the accepted time.

 

[Ben1445]

I just checked again and John 6:44 is still there and still says what it says.
So your posted verses do not abrogate the verse that I presented.

… No one can come unless the Father draws.
… Those drawn are those raised on the last day (none lost).

[shrug]

Jesus draws all men to Himself because He was lifted up on the cross. But you also shrug that off. You also ignore the reason in John 6 that is given for His statement.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus draws all men to Himself because He was lifted up on the cross. But you also shrug that off.

I shrug off the interpretation that Jesus meant ”everyone without exception” would be drawn to him once Jesus was crucified because it is patently false. The Aztec living in the Americas before the arrival of Christopher Columbus who had no opportunity to hear the gospel and had never heard of Jesus were not drawn to him when they cut out the heart of their human sacrifices to their winged snake god. Even scripture implicitly states as much …

Romans 10:14 [NKJV]
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

How indeed? A very good question.
They shall not … hear, believe, call.