Calvinism needs to add words to scripture

[Psalty]

I clarified your erroneous take on it by comparing scripture with scripture. I don't form doctrine from a single verse.



Ephesians Chapter 1

4​	even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

13​	But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

You err greatly by forming doctrine from a single verse.

Again, you are running to other writings of Paul to AVOID how clear Ephesians 1:4 is.

But I will give you some real bible study on this, since you prefer that.

Instead of running to other books, we stay in closely related Pauline writing… first in Ephesians, then Colossians which was likely written and carried by Tychichus at the same time.

We will stay in these books because the phrase from Eph 1:4 “holy and blameless” only occurs in 3 times in the whole NT, and all 3 in Paul’s writings: Eph 1:4, Eph 5:27, and Col 1:22.

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
— Ephesians 1:4

that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
— Ephesians 5:27

yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach⁠—
— Colossians 1:22

What is this chosing in Christ? To be holy and blameless before Him.
In the sense of salvation? No, in the sense of the consumation at the presentation of the Bride as Eph 5 says.
Is he talking about the moment of salvation and being cleansed? No, Col 1 tells us that it will be at the moment we are presented to Christ, reinforcing the same thought from Eph 5.

So is the chosing about salvation? No, Paul says it is about choosing to be holy and blameless at our marriage presentation to Christ.

And does “in Christ” matter? Yes. If you dont have the in Him, you make this all about Him choosing you, a man centered selfish focus. This is about God chosing us only because we are in Christ. He chose us because of Christ to be holy and blameless.

Again, you fail to interpret this verse without the “in Christ” and alter the meaning.
And, you fail to address what we are chosen for, completely ignoring that it is to be Holy and Blameless at the consumation.

Let the bible interpret the bible!

 

[kyredneck]

What is this chosing in Christ?

Ephesians Chapter 1

4​	even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

13​	But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

You err greatly by forming doctrine from a single verse.

 

[Ascetic X]

The potter has the right to do as He pleases, that's 'sovereignty' in every sense of the word.

God does not want anyone to be evil or disobey Him. God does not make any person wicked.

Psalm 11:5

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Another one of your lies arising from your CDS. I know of no Calvinist that believes that.

Calvinists believe God ordains and decrees everything, including the fall of Adam. These Puritans affirm this commonly held Calvin-worshiper doctrine.

Did God ordain Adam's Fall?

My question has to do with Adam's fall. If he was created morally (and otherwise) able to sin (posse peccare) and able to not sin (posse non peccare), with a full libertarian free will and the power of contrary choice (which is what Augustine seems to have taught), did God merely know that the...

puritanboard.com

 

[Psalty]

Ephesians Chapter 1

4​	even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

13​	But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

You err greatly by forming doctrine from a single verse.

You err assuming that 2 Thess is talking about the same thing. From the beginning of what? Paul’s missions. “From the first fruits” as some early manuscripts say.

And by connecting these two verses you think:
Chose BEFORE the foundation of the world
Chose FROM the beginning
are the same? One is literally before and the other is after, even if you think the beginning is Gen 1.

Why you gotta be a runner, be a track star? Stop running and just stick with Eph 1:4 and answer the questions. They are so simple. It’s not a trap, but your Total Inability to answer shows that you know your interpretation is a logical failure and unsustainable… it’s why you wont even try to defend it on it’s own terms. It’s not rocket science… you actually don’t even need a cross-reference to understand it!

 

[Psalty]

Calvinists believe God ordains and decrees everything, including the fall of Adam. These Puritans affirm this commonly held Calvin-worshiper doctrine.

Did God ordain Adam's Fall?

My question has to do with Adam's fall. If he was created morally (and otherwise) able to sin (posse peccare) and able to not sin (posse non peccare), with a full libertarian free will and the power of contrary choice (which is what Augustine seems to have taught), did God merely know that the...

puritanboard.com

ATPollard on this website believes this. I pressed him on this in a prior thread. He was quoting Eph 1:13, that God ordains all things. I asked if God ordained the fall. He said yes, then stopped posting. I asked if God ordained the single act of sin that made the fall. He would not answer clearly. Again, a clear case of logical failure where calvinists know the implications, but simply refuse to answer because they are unwilling to test their views… God help their children not fall away when they are asked to ignore logic as well! Ripe for an atheist to pluck them apart.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

To the Calvinist, the words “in Him” make no difference at all. Just how Calvin incorrectly quotes it, so to Martin and others agree. Never mind that its not even about salvation but being holy and blameless!

I did say that there was more to the Calvin quote than I had time to type out.
Here you are:

'"In Christ." This is Paul's second proof that election is gracious; for if we are chosen in Christ, it is not in ourselves. We were not chosen from some perception of anything that we deserve, but because our heavenly Father bestowed on us the privilege of adoption and introduced us into the body of Christ. In short, the mention of Christ excludes all human merit, and everything which human beings derive from their own resources. For when Paul says that we are "chosen in Christ," it follows that in ourselves we are unworthy.'

Before you mock someone's writings, it is a good idea to go so far as to read them. Then you might not make such a fool of yourself.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What is perhaps the most horrible doctrine of Calvin-worship is the so-called “sovereignty” (an unbiblical term) of God, which turns God into a monster who actually wills, and does not merely foreknow and allow, sin and evil to happen.

They do not understand “sovereignty”, which refers to being the ultimate ruler and law-giver over a kingdom, but not the cause of all that occurs in it.

Calvin-worshipers claim that everything that happens, no matter how vile or perverse, is caused and approved by God. They affirm that nothing is beyond the control of God and they gleefully ascribe diabolical deeds to Him. They feel no shame or impiety in making these outrageous, sacrilegious, and shockingly immoral assertions.

This is not the thrice-holy God of the Bible, who is Love and Light, and in Whom is no darkness at all.

Proverbs 16:4. 'The LORD has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.'
Psalm 115:3. 'But our God is in heaven; He does whatever pleases Him.
Isaiah 45:6-7. 'I am the LORD, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.'
Luke 13:2-4. 'And Jesus answered them and said, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."'

What is perhaps the most horrible doctrine of this strange outbreak of Calvin-hating, is the pathetic non-god that they appear to worship, who sits by and wrings his hands whenever something bad occurs and bleats, "Oh, how dreadful all this is, but I'm just not powerful enough to do anything about it!"
If anyone wants a sensible discussion of Theodicy and the problem of evil, he should start a new thread.

BTW, the word 'sovereign' apears over 100 times in the NIV, the most popular Bible version in English,
as a translation of Adonai Yahweh in the O.T., and five times in the N.T.