Did Aaron Invent Rock Music 3400 or So Years Ago Before Elvis?

[JonC]

@Scripture More Accurately

We need to clarify for the board (I can see how the areas we are talking about could be confused with the use of "Asia").

We have been talking about ANE music (think Mesopotamia). By "Eastern" we are dealing with the Middle East.

We, obviously, are not talking about Eastern Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.).


@Scripture More Accurately was correcting me when I said that the ANE music would sound foreign to him. Although I did not realize it, he was raised in the Middle East and is familiar with their worship music.

To me this music is harsh and chaotic. I have traveled, but I have a Western ear for music. I am not one to listen to monophonic music.

I do not find contemporary East Asian music harsh (I actually like it). Even Arabic music, in general, is pleasant. Indian music? That one is a hard pass. But the worship music of the Middle East is something I find overly harsh.


The problem with the OP is @Scripture More Accurately makes connections that are not there.

At first (on the surface) he or she was describing a general (and subjective) "wildness" or "warlike" sound. The problem here is the worship music of the Temple could (probably would) sound "warlike" to us. Another issue is that Scripture does not actually describe that music in such a way (that was an asdimption).

BUT then @Scripture More Accurately linked "rock music" to music that Christians use to worship God, claiming God rejects their worship. This wss where he/she went from assumption to the accuser of God's people.


Everything about rock music (the style, the beat, the time signature) is foreign to any music used in the biblical account.

Everything about the style of traditional hymns and CWM is foreign to the style of music used in the OT and the NT to worship God.

What do we know about the music they used? It was loud and "harsh". They used drums, horns, cymbols, and stringed instruments. It was very emotional.

That's it. Our music (traditional hymns and CWM) is completely foreign to the music of the bible in style. BUT not in the Object of worship.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think many of us were not exposed to worship music in any meaningful way until after our conversion.

Again....my question was WHY you believe that God accepts that music (traditional hymns).

This traditional music is very different from ancient Near Eastern music.

I am not sure what part of Asia you grew up in, I assume it was the Near East and you are saying you grew up with Ancient Near Eastern worship music (you enjoyed the ancient harp, ram's horn, ḥatzotzerah, frame drum, timbrels and cymbals).

So you are a child of two worlds (three including Christian).

You understand, then, just how chaotic and harsh the ANE music sounds to the Western ear.

BUT you also understand the complaints of how dead our traditional worship music (and CWM, for that matter) sound to those who are accustomed to worshipping God in a monophonic style absent harmony.


So....again...the question I have asked you is why you believe that God accepts your worship but not Christians who worship with CWM (especially since CWM has more in common with the worship practices of the Hebrews and Apostlic Church).


I am obviously dismissing your claim that the music of the Isralites mirrored or had a kinship to CWM (Christian music with a "rock beat"). The reason is this "rock beat" is a Western comcept foreign to even ANE pagain worship. You are bading it in what YOU think is "wild" or "warlike", witch is foolish.


BUT here is why I ask -

ANE worship is loud, the instruments are designed to be loud. The worship is constructed more like CWM (the leader-led type of singing). The type of music is very much based on emotion.

But traditional hymn music is more subdued, more formulated, less emotional (the lyrics may be emotional but the music itself is typically calming rather than designed to elicit emotion).

Obviously neither traditional hymn music or CWM as types are remotely similar to what was used in ANE worship.

So WHY do you think, if the type of accompanying music determines whether God accepts or rejects the music, that God accepts your worship?


Do you even use stringed instruments, drums, and horns in your worship service???

Wrong again. You assume things that are wrong. I am not from the Middle East. I am not going to specify any further for you where I am from because that is irrelevant to my point---you make accusations without knowledge.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

This is a false claim (you should apologize).

I am talking strictly about CWM (as a few posts back you said God rejected it based in the type of music).

I am not advocating ANY music style over another.

What does the Bible say to use in worship?

Drums, stringed instruments, cymbals, and horns. But that was, I believe, cultural.

Does your worship service use drums, stringed instruments and horns? Do you refrain from harmony?


As far as the claim goes, linking CWM with ANE pagan worship because of a "rock beat" you think is "warlike"....well....that is just stupid. There is no other way to put it.

ANE pagan worship sounded like ANE worship. It was cultural. Mormon hymns sound like Christian hymns. It is not the style but the worship.


Basing God's acceptance or rejection of a Christian's worship on cultural aspects of the accompanying music is essentially witchcraft. You believe one can control God's approval or rejection by differing music styles.


Here is my opinion - you hold onto racist dogma (you hold on to racist propaganda even as the racist aspects fell aside). You hold a religion along with Christianity that is akin to witchcraft. You play God, determining that God accepts your worship although the style is foreign to the music of the Bible and that He rejects music that you do not like.

You have become the accuser of the brethren.


Now...as far as your worship, if it is in spirit and truth, I believe God accepts it even though you may not use drums, cymbals, horns and stringed instruments. The only hesitation I have is the log in your eye as you accuse God's children.

Wow, you are a moderator? There are so many false claims here ("racist," "witchcraft," "accuser of the brethren") . . . I will not challenge you any further about the specific claims in this post. Suffice it to say, you have uttered many words that are untrue and are going to give a fearful account to God for your many false statements about me.

The fact stands that you refuse to engage with the specifics of what Scripture says.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

@Scripture More Accurately

We need to clarify for the board (I can see how the areas we are talking about could be confused with the use of "Asia").

We have been talking about ANE music (think Mesopotamia). By "Eastern" we are dealing with the Middle East.

We, obviously, are not talking about Eastern Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.).


@Scripture More Accurately was correcting me when I said that the ANE music would sound foreign to him. Although I did not realize it, he was raised in the Middle East and is familiar with their worship music.

To me this music is harsh and chaotic. I have traveled, but I have a Western ear for music. I am not one to listen to monophonic music.

I do not find contemporary East Asian music harsh (I actually like it). Even Arabic music, in general, is pleasant. Indian music? That one is a hard pass. But the worship music of the Middle East is something I find overly harsh.


The problem with the OP is @Scripture More Accurately makes connections that are not there.

At first (on the surface) he or she was describing a general (and subjective) "wildness" or "warlike" sound. The problem here is the worship music of the Temple could (probably would) sound "warlike" to us. Another issue is that Scripture does not actually describe that music in such a way (that was an asdimption).

BUT then @Scripture More Accurately linked "rock music" to music that Christians use to worship God, claiming God rejects their worship. This wss where he/she went from assumption to the accuser of God's people.


Everything about rock music (the style, the beat, the time signature) is foreign to any music used in the biblical account.

Everything about the style of traditional hymns and CWM is foreign to the style of music used in the OT and the NT to worship God.

What do we know about the music they used? It was loud and "harsh". They used drums, horns, cymbols, and stringed instruments. It was very emotional.

That's it. Our music (traditional hymns and CWM) is completely foreign to the music of the bible in style. BUT not in the Object of worship.

Your claims about the Temple music are false. Scripture teaches that the worship music of God's people that was acceptable to God was solemn, pleasant, joyful, and much more aesthetically beautiful than you wrongly make it out to be. Those are divine assessments/demands---they are not human opinions.

 

[JonC]

Your claims about the Temple music are false. Scripture teaches that the worship music of God's people that was acceptable to God was solemn, pleasant, joyful, and much more aesthetically beautiful than you wrongly make it out to be. Those are divine assessments/demands---they are not human opinions.

I am sure it was pleasing to their ear, as it was their culture. But no, it was not "beautiful" in terms of pleasing in a Western (or even Asian) contemporary sence.

The worship music in the Temple was monophonic. The frame drums were not quietly tapped, the horns were not softlety blown, the stringed instruments were not strummed with a light touch as a modern harp.

The music (which included harps, lyres, trumpets, cymbals) was designed to express the majesty of God, to heighten the mood and complement the sacrifice. The music was loud, intending to symbolize the power of God.


The type pf music you describe would not be suitable for Temple worship.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I am sure it was pleasing to their ear, as it was their culture. But no, it was not "beautiful" in terms of pleasing in a Western (or even Asian) contemporary sence.

The worship music in the Temple was monophonic. The frame drums were not quietly tapped, the horns were not softlety blown, the stringed instruments were not strummed with a light touch as a modern harp.

The music (which included harps, lyres, trumpets, cymbals) was designed to express the majesty of God, to heighten the mood and complement the sacrifice. The music was loud, intending to symbolize the power of God.


The type pf music you describe would not be suitable for Temple worship.

What God says defines what is and is not true. When He says that something was pleasant, solemn, beautiful, etc., those things are objectively true regardless of any differing human opinions about those things. The Temple music was objectively solemn, pleasant, beautiful, and acceptable to God because He says so; they were not so just because it was "pleasant to their ear, as it was their culture."

 

[JonC]

What God says defines what is and is not true. When He says that something was pleasant, solemn, beautiful, etc., those things are objectively true regardless of any differing human opinions about those things. The Temple music was objectively solemn, pleasant, beautiful, and acceptable to God because He says so; they were not so just because it was "pleasant to their ear, as it was their culture."

It was pleasing to God's ears. You confuse God with yourself.

CWM is beautiful. It is pleasing. It may not be your preference but you are not God.

"Solemn" in terms of worship music means serious, not subdued or quite. Worship is serious.

You forget the instruments God told them to use. Yes, you can play the lyre softly. But the shofar is not an instrument that can be played quietly. The frame drums were not played by tapping softly.

You miss out on a lot of things about ancient worship because of your "god complex". But that is fine. The problem is you have allowed your ignorance and predjudices to make you an accuser of the brethren.

 

[JonC]

What God says defines what is and is not true.

God commanded this worship in music. He said to use trumpets, drums, cymbals, and stringed instruments.

Do you use trumpets, drums, cymbals, and stringed instruments in corporate worship?

God describes praise in worship as "shouting".

Do you shout praise songs or sing quietly?

God says to praise Him with "loud clashing cymbals".

Do you use loud clashing cymbals to praise God?

God said to worship Him with a joyful sound by playing loudly on musical instruments, specifically harps, lyres, and cymbals.

Do you worship Him by playing loudly on musical instruments?

God says to worship with "loud shouts".

Do you worship with loud shouts?


Scripture, over and over again, contradicts your claims.

You would do better to read what the Bible DOES say about this issue instead of making assumptions about what is not said.