How to receive the Holy Ghost

[Ascetic X]

It is the same thing. It is impossible to receive the Holy Spirit without the fruit.

Fruit is not automatic. It requires pruning, weeding, watering, fertilizing — renewing the mind. You can be born of the Spirit of Christ, but not manifest fruit of the Spirit, which requires that you also walk in the Spirit, crucifying the lusts of the flesh.

Galatians 5

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

hard to have the Holy Spirit when someone is holding to Jesus spiritually died on that cross and had to get born again in Hell to save Himself and then us
And Oneness take it a step further, must speak in tongues to even get saved

I'm still a "New Guy" here and am unsure if someone would be offended if we "judged another person's salvation" or whatever! Perhaps I should stop caring?

Kenneth Hagin (and his ilk) are most certainly in the flames of Hell sizzling like a sausage right now. No funny emoji to go here, just sad and even sadder that many still buy into their heretical nonsense!

 

[rockytopva]

Fruit is not automatic. It requires pruning, weeding, watering, fertilizing — renewing the mind. You can be born of the Spirit of Christ, but not manifest fruit of the Spirit, which requires that you also walk in the Spirit, crucifying the lusts of the flesh.

Galatians 5

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I will like that. If I may add... The infilling of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are two separate things...

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. - 1 Corinthians 12

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:29-30

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Fruit is not automatic. It requires pruning, weeding, watering, fertilizing — renewing the mind. You can be born of the Spirit of Christ, but not manifest fruit of the Spirit, which requires that you also walk in the Spirit, crucifying the lusts of the flesh.

I would say that it is automatic. If you are a child of God, you WILL bear fruit and such is evidence of a genuine conversion.

What you are speaking of here determines whether that fruit is thirty, sixty, or a hundred fold.

 

[rockytopva]

I'm still a "New Guy" here and am unsure if someone would be offended if we "judged another person's salvation" or whatever! Perhaps I should stop caring?

Kenneth Hagin (and his ilk) are most certainly in the flames of Hell sizzling like a sausage right now. No funny emoji to go here, just sad and even sadder that many still buy into their heretical nonsense!

I do not associate any kind of spirituality with salvation. Salvation is as simple as...

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

God is one to chastise his people. It is something to endure. Whether or not a gift of the Spirit comes out of it or not I don't know. But.... Salvation is not a gift of the Spirit. That is something we all begin with and the Spirit helps us along from there.

 

[rockytopva]

I would say that it is automatic. If you are a child of God, you WILL bear fruit and such is evidence of a genuine conversion.

What you are speaking of here determines whether that fruit is thirty, sixty, or a hundred fold.

And... Doing our part to provide God with good ground so we can produce fruit.

 

[rockytopva]

And enduring the chastisement of the Lord... I would see the need of much encouragement from the time of simple salvation to moving onto the more weightier things of God...

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: - Hebrews 12

And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the Lord thy God chasteneth thee.- Deuteronomy 8:2 & 8:5

 

[rockytopva]

And the journey between salvation and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is also a process called sanctification. For some folk it begins with tying them to a chair and a haircut.

 

[Ascetic X]

I'm still a "New Guy" here and am unsure if someone would be offended if we "judged another person's salvation" or whatever! Perhaps I should stop caring?

Kenneth Hagin (and his ilk) are most certainly in the flames of Hell sizzling like a sausage right now. No funny emoji to go here, just sad and even sadder that many still buy into their heretical nonsense!

I see a lot that bothers me in many allegedly Christian preachers and ministry leaders, especially when they speak relentless heresy or go to prison for naughty deeds that churches covered up for years — but I am not so bold as to declare that any person in ministry is or will be in hell.

I do not think that type of accusation looks good to outsiders.

King David was guilty of disgusting crimes. Solomon got really weird. God wanted to kill Moses at one point.

Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that
preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and
left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son,
Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa
to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that
some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what
he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence. Those who were close
to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses
before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address
his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year
after the infamous Tulsa meeting.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I see a lot that bothers me in many allegedly Christian preachers and ministry leaders, especially when they speak relentless heresy or go to prison for naughty deeds that churches covered up for years — but I am not so bold as to declare that any person in ministry is or will be in hell.

I do not think that type of accusation looks good to outsiders.

King David was guilty of disgusting crimes. Solomon got really weird. God wanted to kill Moses at one point.

Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that
preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and
left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son,
Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa
to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that
some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what
he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence. Those who were close
to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses
before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address
his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year
after the infamous Tulsa meeting.

King David committed horrible sins but he was continually repentant of such sins. Damage was done nonetheless and the enemies of God are still using his stumbling as occasion to blaspheme.

The mainstream media is quick to grab and publish stories regarding the moral failures of those who name the name of Christ. What they will not do is show them repenting in sackcloth and ashes and seeking restoration.

I take serious issue with those who are consistently deceitful, who consistently promulgate heretical or false teachings. So-called "Faith Healers" are proven frauds and they likely know it yet they continue in their deception! Do you really believe the Holy Ghost would allow a genuine believer to get away with such nonsense? Benny Hinn has said a good many similar things regarding abuses in the "Word of Faith" movement but still practices his own deceit.

Yes, we are often in a "Catch-22" here. We are regarded as "Hateful and Divisive" when we are critical of such antics but when they are legitimately exposed, the unbelieving world lumps us all in together with them.

I hope I am wrong about Kenneth Hagin.

 

[John of Japan]

All comes back to their second act of grace doctrine, evidenced by speaking in other tongues, to them, no tongues, no Spirit infilling

There are those who do not believe in a "second act of grace" but do believe in the filling of the Holy Spirit as an act (but not necessarily a one time event) beyond salvation, praying for the power of God for service: R. A. Torrey, D. L. Moody, John R. Rice, etc. I believe this also, but teach "filling" as simply a metaphor for receiving the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry. There are other such metaphors: "clothed with power," "came upon him," etc.

 

[rockytopva]

There are those who do not believe in a "second act of grace" but do believe in the filling of the Holy Spirit as an act (but not necessarily a one time event) beyond salvation, praying for the power of God for service: R. A. Torrey, D. L. Moody, John R. Rice, etc. I believe this also, but teach "filling" as simply a metaphor for receiving the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry. There are other such metaphors: "clothed with power," "came upon him," etc.

I would not want to make a career out of ministry these days without a sensation that God was with me. Faith is also considered a gift of the Spirit.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12

It is so important to gain the treasure in our earthen vessels...But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. - 2 Corinthians 4:7

 

[John of Japan]

I would not want to make a career out of ministry these days without a sensation that God was with me. Faith is also considered a gift of the Spirit.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12

It is so important to gain the treasure in our earthen vessels...But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. - 2 Corinthians 4:7

I don't want just a "sensation." I want the power of God: "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness" (Acts 4:31).

In Japan, when we moved to Yokohama to start a church in 1983, I felt completely alone and inadequate. I would go to the park to pray for hours. Reading R. A. Torrey's book on the Holy Spirit, I claimed God's power. I felt no "sensations," but went out to give the Gospel with boldness. That's what the filling of the Holy Spirit is about, not "sensation."

 

[rockytopva]

I don't want just a "sensation." I want the power of God: "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness" (Acts 4:31).

In Japan, when we moved to Yokohama to start a church in 1983, I felt completely alone and inadequate. I would go to the park to pray for hours. Reading R. A. Torrey's book on the Holy Spirit, I claimed God's power. I felt no "sensations," but went out to give the Gospel with boldness. That's what the filling of the Holy Spirit is about, not "sensation."

I believe it takes a degree of consecration to arrive there...

But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank. - Daniel 1:8

 

[JesusFan]

I see a lot that bothers me in many allegedly Christian preachers and ministry leaders, especially when they speak relentless heresy or go to prison for naughty deeds that churches covered up for years — but I am not so bold as to declare that any person in ministry is or will be in hell.

I do not think that type of accusation looks good to outsiders.

King David was guilty of disgusting crimes. Solomon got really weird. God wanted to kill Moses at one point.

Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that
preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and
left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son,
Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa
to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that
some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what
he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence. Those who were close
to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses
before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address
his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year
after the infamous Tulsa meeting.

David was still believing in and trusting in Yahweh of Israel, was still a man who repented and confessed his sins, but Hagen, Copeland, Hinn, price et all, by their own words and what they believe and teach mark themselves out as 'apostles of Satan"

 

[JesusFan]

King David committed horrible sins but he was continually repentant of such sins. Damage was done nonetheless and the enemies of God are still using his stumbling as occasion to blaspheme.

The mainstream media is quick to grab and publish stories regarding the moral failures of those who name the name of Christ. What they will not do is show them repenting in sackcloth and ashes and seeking restoration.

I take serious issue with those who are consistently deceitful, who consistently promulgate heretical or false teachings. So-called "Faith Healers" are proven frauds and they likely know it yet they continue in their deception! Do you really believe the Holy Ghost would allow a genuine believer to get away with such nonsense? Benny Hinn has said a good many similar things regarding abuses in the "Word of Faith" movement but still practices his own deceit.

Yes, we are often in a "Catch-22" here. We are regarded as "Hateful and Divisive" when we are critical of such antics but when they are legitimately exposed, the unbelieving world lumps us all in together with them.

I hope I am wrong about Kenneth Hagin.

All of thre Major teachers of WOF heresy by those doctrines and theology mark themselves out as being Apostles and tools of Satan

 

[JesusFan]

There are those who do not believe in a "second act of grace" but do believe in the filling of the Holy Spirit as an act (but not necessarily a one time event) beyond salvation, praying for the power of God for service: R. A. Torrey, D. L. Moody, John R. Rice, etc. I believe this also, but teach "filling" as simply a metaphor for receiving the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry. There are other such metaphors: "clothed with power," "came upon him," etc.

Think the infilling is when we agree with scriptures that we should be submitting to the person of the Holy Spirit in us to lead, direct, empower us to live as we ought now

 

[JesusFan]

I don't want just a "sensation." I want the power of God: "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness" (Acts 4:31).

In Japan, when we moved to Yokohama to start a church in 1983, I felt completely alone and inadequate. I would go to the park to pray for hours. Reading R. A. Torrey's book on the Holy Spirit, I claimed God's power. I felt no "sensations," but went out to give the Gospel with boldness. That's what the filling of the Holy Spirit is about, not "sensation."

Its even simpler thatn that, its reading and accepting as bible truth that God the Holy Spirit indwells us now, and he is here to empower, guide, led, and direct us as we allow Him to do such

 

[John of Japan]

Think the infilling is when we agree with scriptures that we should be submitting to the person of the Holy Spirit in us to lead, direct, empower us to live as we ought now

Dr. Lee Roberson, founder of Tennessee Temple U., used to say simply "Emptiness and willingness."

 

[rockytopva]

I am Word of Faith... To a certain degree... Speaking words of faith is a good thing. And how many times did the Lord say... Oh ye of little faith? And at one time he said... How is it ye have no faith?

But when it comes to self promotion, book sales, mansions, private jets, great riches, and the focus on materialism it becomes very clear that such people have crossed the cautions of the New Testament into something else.