What Is a Jew or an Israelite?

[th1bill]

Did that entitle Sammy to a slice of Palestine had he immigrated to Israel™?

That is not up to me so I cannot say.

 

[kyredneck]

Simply put, the gospel message was taken to the Jew (first) and they rejected it so Paul went "also" to the Gentiles who in his time gladly received it.

Galatians Chapter 1

15​	But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16​	to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians Chapter 2

7​	but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8​	(for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9​	and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision;

The phrase is "To the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Rom 1:16) almost as if Paul was speaking sarcastically that they were an "afterthought" but were they?

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

“I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews…..” Gill

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

27 And he said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children`s bread and cast it to the dogs. Mk 7

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ro 1

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. Acts 3

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 13

It wasn't until Acts 10 that the joining of 'the two folds' began.

 

[Aaron]

Galatians Chapter 1

15​	But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16​	to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians Chapter 2

7​	but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8​	(for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9​	and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision;

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

“I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews…..” Gill

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

27 And he said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children`s bread and cast it to the dogs. Mk 7

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ro 1

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. Acts 3

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 13

It wasn't until Acts 10 that the joining of 'the two folds' began.

Scripture carpet bombing is a glorious thing.

 

[Aaron]

Simply put, the gospel message was taken to the Jew (first) and they rejected it

The elect didn't reject it.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded - Romans 11:7

 

[Aaron]

That is not up to me so I cannot say.

Well, you should be able to, if you're able to say anyone at all is entitled to it.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

The elect didn't reject it.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded - Romans 11:7

Agreed but we are not speaking of the elect nor can we speak of certainty regarding who the elect are. The only person you can know is elect with 100% certainty is yourself and even then, you are commanded to make your calling and election sure!

Neither of us have the slightest clue what God is about to do. God can take the vilest man and grant him repentance and faith to believe!

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Galatians Chapter 1

15​	But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16​	to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians Chapter 2

7​	but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8​	(for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9​	and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision;

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

“I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews…..” Gill

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

27 And he said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children`s bread and cast it to the dogs. Mk 7

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ro 1

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. Acts 3

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 13

It wasn't until Acts 10 that the joining of 'the two folds' began.

I'm not entirely sure I get the point you are trying to make here.

 

[kyredneck]

I'm not entirely sure I get the point you are trying to make here.

‘To the Jew first’, and, Paul the apostle to the Gentiles both mandated by God, didn’t just happen to happen that way.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

‘To the Jew first’, and, Paul the apostle to the Gentiles both mandated by God, didn’t just happen to happen that way.

I believe that Paul was speaking mainly to the reality of his own ministry but this is also played out historically. Just because the Jews (or anyone else) have rejected the message of the gospel doesn't mean they will continue to reject the message. We should not presume one's reprobation any more than we should presume one's election.

 

[kyredneck]

I believe that Paul was speaking mainly to the reality of his own ministry but this is also played out historically.

I believe it played out historically because God chose Paul from the womb to carry the gospel to the nations. Of course in every city he logically went to the synagogues first, he loved his fellow Jews and wanted them all to be ‘saved’ (Ro 10: 1), this worldwide network of synagogues being the conduit for the rapid spread of the gospel.

Just because the Jews (or anyone else) have rejected the message of the gospel doesn't mean they will continue to reject the message.

K. Anyone of the elect is apt to have a Damascus road experience.

We should not presume one's reprobation any more than we should presume one's election.

K. I believe heaven will be chocked full of surprises.

You’re here?!?

 

[Aaron]

Agreed...

You just agreed that what Israel was seeking for was a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God (Heb. 11:10). The elect found it, and the rest were blinded, because they didn't seek it in faith.

Abraham looked for that city, and rejoiced to see His day, John 8:56. That city is the New Jerusalem, Mount Sion, the general assembly and the church of the first born, Heb. 12:22-23.

The turning of Israel looks like this:





Not like this:





Or this:

 

[Aaron]

...but we are not speaking of the elect nor can we speak of certainty regarding who the elect are. The only person you can know is elect with 100% certainty is yourself and even then, you are commanded to make your calling and election sure!

It's true we can't see the heart, but discernment is not as difficult as you make it sound here, and I'm not really sure what this has to do with the discussion.

Neither of us have the slightest clue what God is about to do. God can take the vilest man and grant him repentance and faith to believe!

That happens in every case.

But we're talking about the future of the Jews, and that future is here now.

 

[Ben1445]

K. I believe heaven will be chocked full of surprises.

You may be certain that you will have more than many others.

I couldn’t resist.