Worship Wars?

[Armchair Apologist]

Maybe in some areas there is an anti-traditional music movement. I just have not seen it.

They are around and are becoming as "Traditionalist" about their drums and state of the art sound systems as the traditionalists were about their piano, organ, and hymnals.

Same with traditional music people of yesterday. I have not read of traditional hymn people of the past condemning the more solemn psalm guys that condemned our traditional hymns.

I believe we should acknowledge and remember that which preceded us. We should break out the hymnals at times and "raise the rafters" singing some of the old-time hymns of the faith. We need to have enthusiasm from those sitting in the pews far more than the overly enthusiastic bass player who is "slappin and poppin", and pretty much steppin' all over everyone else's space!

Thanks for the reminder about the Psalms. I keep telling our Worship Pastor (yes, we have one) that I'd like to look at some of the old "Psalters" and perhaps arrange them for a more "contemporary" setting. Remember when it was all about the "Scriptures Songs?" Maranatha Music put several albums of really wonderful scripure songs! What happened to them? Seems to be nothing but "Jesus is my Boyfriend" songs these days.

I have seen people opposed to using a paino, but not people insisting a paino must be used.

I have been in churches without a piano but not because it was their choice not to have one. It was because no one in the congregation could play the piano they had sitting off in the corner collecting dust! It is usually "Feast or Famine" with church musicians these days. Musicians go where all the good musicians are and will likely never have opportunity to play while all the other churches have no instrumentalists or (worse yet) people who are "Church Volunteers" (not actual musicians) trying to play simply because the church and pastor feels obligated to have a worship team!

I would say that your average "Mega-Church" wouldn't know what to do if they blew out their state of the art sound system and therefore didn't have amplification! They'd probably have to either cancel or postpone their services!

 

[Armchair Apologist]

There are numerous commands in Scripture for God's people to use musical instruments in the worship of God.

Which instruments? Old or New Testament? (for any Church of Christ "Water Dogs" who may happen to be lurking). Are guitars scriptural? What about electric guitars? Can the electric guitars be all "pointy" (Flying V, Explorer, Ibanez, Jackson, ESP...) or do they have to be more traditional like a "Les Paul" or ES335?

 

[Aaron]

There are numerous commands in Scripture for God's people to use musical instruments in the worship of God.

There are numerous commands in Scripture to sacrifice bulls and goats in the worship of God, too

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Which instruments? Old or New Testament? (for any Church of Christ "Water Dogs" who may happen to be lurking). Are guitars scriptural? What about electric guitars? Can the electric guitars be all "pointy" (Flying V, Explorer, Ibanez, Jackson, ESP...) or do they have to be more traditional like a "Les Paul" or ES335?

I am not sure what you mean by, "Old or New Testament?"

We are commanded not to be conformed to the world. Stringed instruments are acceptable to God, but we do not use electric guitars because we believe that would be conformity to the world.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

There are numerous commands in Scripture to sacrifice bulls and goats in the worship of God, too

This comparison does not carry any weight because the Scripture itself teaches us that such sacrifices are no longer the will of God, but it does not teach any such thing about the use of musical instruments.

 

[Ascetic X]

I am not sure what you mean by, "Old or New Testament?"

We are commanded not to be conformed to the world. Stringed instruments are acceptable to God, but we do not use electric guitars because we believe that would be conformity to the world.

Adding electricity does not make a guitar conform to the world.

Adding a microphone and PA system does not make a voice conform to the world.

A synthesizer does not conform to the world more than a piano.

These purely arbitrary distinctions are not spiritual or scriptural, but are just personal preferences.

Quarreling and making inflammatory remarks could be viewed as conforming to the world.

Participating on social media and online forums could be viewed as conforming to the world.

As an ascetic, I got rid of my television and long ago stopped going to movie theaters, because for me, they are extremely worldly.

If you shun conforming to the world in church worship music, you should also avoid conforming to the world in all other aspects of life.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Adding electricity does not make a guitar conform to the world.

A synthesizer does not conform to the world more than a piano.

These purely arbitrary distinctions are not spiritual or scriptural, but are just personal preferences.

You do not provide any Bible to back up these statements. Are they true simply because you say so?

As I have already proven in another thread, just because the Bible does not talk against something directly, that does not prove that speaking against it is merely a matter of "personal preferences." Rejecting and speaking against the use of drums with drumheads glued with human blood is not a matter of "just personal preferences." Rejecting and speaking against certain statues is not "just personal preferences." Etc.

You seem to claim to know with specifics that the Bible does not provide what it is to conform to the world and what is not so. Where and how did you get such specific knowledge of what is and isn't worldly? Are your distinctions "purely arbitrary distinctions that are not spiritual or scriptural, but are just personal preferences"?

 

[Marooncat79]

I would love to be there at a Baptist church when senior pastor announced that they have a special worship leader today, and then alice cooper came out full goth make up on, and just wondering how many would be able to just praise the lrd or else just stay focused on him?

Alice Cooper professes Christ

 

[David Lamb]

I would love to be there at a Baptist church when senior pastor announced that they have a special worship leader today, and then alice cooper came out full goth make up on, and just wondering how many would be able to just praise the lrd or else just stay focused on him?

I have never been in a church that has either a senior pastor or a worship leader. We do have somebody who accompanies the hymns on an organ, to make sure we all start on the same note and sing at the same speed. The idea of having somebody dressed as a Goth and covered in make-up to "lead" the worship makes me wonder how people who would do such a thing would define worship.

 

[JesusFan]

Alice Cooper professes Christ

Yes, and he has active reach out to teens and to fellow musicians

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I am not sure what you mean by, "Old or New Testament?"

We are commanded not to be conformed to the world. Stringed instruments are acceptable to God, but we do not use electric guitars because we believe that would be conformity to the world.

Why? How is an electric guitar any more conformed to the world than an acoustic guitar? All of my acoustic guitars have built in transducers for amplification so does this make my acoustic guitars "conformed" to the world?

By what criteria do you determine what is acceptable and what is not? By what criteria do you measure whether something is spiritually acceptable or is "conformed to the world?"

 

[Armchair Apologist]

There are numerous commands in Scripture for God's people to use musical instruments in the worship of God.

I'm waiting for specific, biblical examples here.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

You do not provide any Bible to back up these statements. Are they true simply because you say so?

And neither do you. You say your church does not use electric guitars and I am fine with that. This is your preference and I respect this. I will not come in and fire up my Stratocaster. Would my Martin D-18 be acceptable even though I have an LR Baggs Anthem system installed in it?

As I have already proven in another thread, just because the Bible does not talk against something directly, that does not prove that speaking against it is merely a matter of "personal preferences." Rejecting and speaking against the use of drums with drumheads glued with human blood is not a matter of "just personal preferences." Rejecting and speaking against certain statues is not "just personal preferences." Etc.

If you are making a moral judgment based upon biblical principles, you had better state by what criteria you are making such judgment. I do not know if I had heard of drumheads glued with human blood but if you have something like this, I would certainly question your motives along with how you came into possession of such things. The local law enforcement authorities may take interest as well. What about a standard Ludwig drum kit with Remo drumheads and Zildjian cymbals?

You seem to claim to know with specifics that the Bible does not provide what it is to conform to the world and what is not so. Where and how did you get such specific knowledge of what is and isn't worldly? Are your distinctions "purely arbitrary distinctions that are not spiritual or scriptural, but are just personal preferences"?

There are numerous scriptures by which we can determine whether something is Christ-honoring or is in conformance to the fashion of this world. One of these is our conversation and the manner in which we conduct ourselves. We are to shun profane and vain babblings, gossip, and unnecessary contention. We are to be honest and upright in all of our business affairs, and we are to avoid drunkenness and sexual immorality. Each and every one of these have strong, scriptural support. Choosing whether or not to use drums or electric guitars in your church services does not.

 

[xlsdraw]

And neither do you. You say your church does not use electric guitars and I am fine with that. This is your preference and I respect this. I will not come in and fire up my Stratocaster. Would my Martin D-18 be acceptable even though I have an LR Baggs Anthem system installed in it?

If you are making a moral judgment based upon biblical principles, you had better state by what criteria you are making such judgment. I do not know if I had heard of drumheads glued with human blood but if you have something like this, I would certainly question your motives along with how you came into possession of such things. The local law enforcement authorities may take interest as well. What about a standard Ludwig drum kit with Remo drumheads and Zildjian cymbals?

There are numerous scriptures by which we can determine whether something is Christ-honoring or is in conformance to the fashion of this world. One of these is our conversation and the manner in which we conduct ourselves. We are to shun profane and vain babblings, gossip, and unnecessary contention. We are to be honest and upright in all of our business affairs, and we are to avoid drunkenness and sexual immorality. Each and every one of these have strong, scriptural support. Choosing whether or not to use drums or electric guitars in your church services does not.

This thread, like almost all threads on the BB, are provocations to unnecessary contention.