Was the Sun, Moon, and Stars actually created on the fourth day of Creation...

[Armchair Apologist]

Big Bang theorists postulate a flat universe curved in on itself with no edge or center, like the surface of a balloon. If you traveled in a straight line long enough from any point in space, you would eventually end up where you started. The Big Bang wasn't an explosion in the middle of 3-D space. It was 3D space coming into existence and expanding.

I think we can agree with them that space was created along with time, matter, and energy that comprises the universe. They are also saying that we have a "multiverse" with countless other universes occurring randomly as ours did in order to address the random probability that everything we observe in our observable universe came into being by chance rather than believing "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

But that is neither here or there.

What is described in Genesis is the creation of a spherical universe. If you traveled in a straight line long enough from any point in space, you would eventually reach the edge.

Why I read it as spherical, is that there was an expanse, called heaven created in the midst of the waters. It divided the waters which were above the heavens, from the waters which were below the heavens. The waters which were below the heavens were the seas and oceans of the earth.

According to this, when God "Separated the waters from the waters," he set the "heavenly bodies" (Sun, moon, stars, galaxies, etc) in this "heaven" below the (upper) waters that were above the (lower) waters. The "Third Heaven" is understood to be above the "upper waters" if I am still making sense here.

It also seems clear that according to this, God first created the space and then filled it.

Within the expanse, God placed the sun moon and the stars.

Now, that the notion that the stars were pre-existing is untenable is evident by the commentary of Moses in exodus, for in six days God made the heavens and the earth, and all that in them is.

I don't think I said anything about the stars pre-existing. I believe that they were "spoken into existence" along with the rest of God's creation and it could have occurred just as easily in Gen 1:1 as it could've in 1:14-17. Gap theorists believe that the stars were pre-existing from the "original creation" of which I believe we would both disagree.

Moses' commentary is a general observation. I am not sure where we could find any actual "order" of creation but what we do see is an assertion that God created the world in six literal 24-hour days. I think we could also acknowledge the fact that God was able to speak his entire creation into existence in a single nanosecond. There was a specific reason and purpose for the way that God went about with his creation.

Perhaps God created the Earth first and then set it in orbit around the sun on the fourth day? It certainly could've happened that way. I know that the Genesis account is not a "Scientific" account of how he did it, just that he did it. One of our ladies in our study last night spoke of the verse in Job that says "God hangs the earth upon nothing" which is a simple stated fact. Science may try to examine how he hung the earth on nothing but theology declares that he did.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Sounds alright generally for the sun and moon but it doesn’t explain the stars.

I’ll stick to a body of material made on day four, understanding.

I wasn't getting what he was saying. I am thinking from the standpoint of opacity; that standing on the earth, you could see the light from the sun as you would on an overcast day but not actually see the sun until the fourth day. This is how a "gap theorist" would explain it anyway.

 

[37818]

The solar wind mean velocity is 310 miles per second, between the Sun and Earth. About 3.47 days to blow past Earth. Being about 4 days to allow the Sun, Moon and stars to be seen as such.

. . . but it doesn’t explain the stars.

The stars, most are many light years away. The Andromeda Galaxy is over 2 and a half million light years away. The six days of Genesis 1 are not as old as the God created stars.

 

[Ben1445]

The solar wind mean velocity is 310 miles per second, between the Sun and Earth. About 3.47 days to blow past Earth. Being about 4 days to allow the Sun, Moon and stars to be seen as such.

The stars, most are many light years away. The Andromeda Galaxy is over 2 and a half million light years away. The six days of Genesis 1 are not as old as the God created stars.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


But you still think the stars are older than the six days of creation, even though they are mentioned as created in Genesis one and Scripture clearly says everything in heaven and earth was made in those six days?

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


But you still think the stars are older than the six days of creation, even though they are mentioned as created in Genesis one and Scripture clearly says everything in heaven and earth was made in those six days?

Gap theorists and "Old Earth" creationists both hold a position where the stars (and other heavenly bodies) are pre-existent to the six days of creation. Many of the "Old School" Dispensationalists who carry around Larkin's "Dispensational Truth" along with their Old Scofield Bibles hold to and teach the "gap theory" even calling it "Gap Fact. There are a few "Whiteboard Scholars" on YouTube (Robert Breaker, et al) who obsess over such things.

 

[JD731]

It is a test! If one will not believe simple words there is no use of going further.

Is 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him:

 

[37818]

The solar wind mean velocity is 310 miles per second, between the Sun and Earth. About 3.42 days to blow past Earth. Being about 4 days to allow the Sun, Moon and stars to be seen as such.

. . . but it doesn’t explain the stars.

The stars, most are many light years away. The Andromeda Galaxy is over 2 and a half million light years away. The six days of Genesis 1 are not as old as the God created stars.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


But you still think the stars are older than the six days of creation, even though they are mentioned as created in Genesis one and Scripture clearly says everything in heaven and earth was made in those six days?

Because it is true. There are for Earth three heavens in those six days. The third of the heavens has no beginning.

 

[Ben1445]

The solar wind mean velocity is 310 miles per second, between the Sun and Earth. About 3.42 days to blow past Earth. Being about 4 days to allow the Sun, Moon and stars to be seen as such.
The stars, most are many light years away. The Andromeda Galaxy is over 2 and a half million light years away. The six days of Genesis 1 are not as old as the God created stars.
Because it is true. There are for Earth three heavens in those six days. The third of the heavens has no beginning.

So when the stars were made during day four, it doesn’t mean they were made on day four?

I keep reading what you keep reposting. It’s not adding anything. It doesn’t explain anything.
But hypothesizing that the Bible doesn’t actually mean what it says is kind of a theory killer for me.

 

[Ben1445]

The Bible says that the stars were made on day four. That is when they were made.

@37818
It seems like you think that we are looking through telescopes into the throne room of God in the third heaven.


The stars were made on day four. And since the sun was also made that day, that would be the first day of solar wind. Without the sun, we have no use for the word solar.

 

[37818]

.

It seems like you think that we are looking through telescopes into the throne room of God in the third heaven.

You are are falsely accusing my view.

From Earth we can only see our atmosphere and space (the Sun, Moon and points of light aka stars.

 

[Aaron]

I don't think I said anything about the stars pre-existing.

You didn't. I anticipated the serial number's argument.

 

[Ben1445]

.

You are are falsely accusing my view.

From Earth we can only see our atmosphere and space (the Sun, Moon and points of light aka stars.

Relax. I’m just trying to figure it out. This is kind of a new thought.
For the record, I’m not very close to accepting it. But it is an interesting thought.

 

[Aaron]

Because it is true.

Assuming a host of arbitrary presuppositions to be true.

Here is what we're told:
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. So God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and also the stars. - Genesis 1:14-16 LSB

On the fourth day, God made the stars to give light upon the earth, and it was so.

But you say, Oh no, that can't be so because we 'know' so much more now than they did back then.

 

[37818]

. . . of arbitrary presuppositions . . . .

Truth is not arbitrary. But is in evidence.
Andromeda Galaxy is now a known system of stars to be over 2 and an half million years old.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Truth is not arbitrary. But is in evidence.
Andromeda Galaxy is now a known system of stars to be over 2 and an half million years old.

It appears that way but is it really?

 

[Ben1445]

It appears that way but is it really?

They found the date of manufacture and patent numbers on the bottom next to the little gold sticker that says “Made in Space.”

 

[Ben1445]

It appears that way but is it really?

Seriously though, over that distance, we are certain that there is no distortion of data? No possibility of a universe created with apparent age or a mature functioning universe?
God made the stars for signs and seasons but said wait a few million years before you can see them because of how far away they are? He can speak the stars into existence, but not the light between them?
@37818
I don’t buy into that sort of theory.

 

[Aaron]

Truth is not arbitrary. But is in evidence.
Andromeda Galaxy is now a known system of stars to be over 2 and an half million years old.

We know nothing of the sort. That's only an assumption. It's only "known" to be 2 and half million light years away...maybe.

Creation is a series of miracles. The waters brought forth the animals in a day. We know the earth brought forth plants in a day, and they were bearing seed and fruit when Adam and Eve were formed. Did Adam and Eve fast for months and years waiting for wheat and nuts?

Why do you think it would be any different with the stars and the light they send upon the earth?

The bottom line is, there's no question what we're being told in the Genesis account. The only question is, can you believe it?