Hundreds Of Questions About The Christian God

[irmadlad]

Yes, you do, and you are exercising that free will right now.

It's a binary question...either you can stay in that burning house and spend eternity separated from God,
or you can humble yourself and freely accept the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

Take a chance....Reach out to God, and ask Him to help you find faith...Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved
through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

The choice is yours to make. I will continue to pray for you.

RE: Yes, you do, and you are exercising that free will right now.

Not in the Biblical sense, no.

Let's do an experiment. I like doing this because it grounds everything in reality and not the abstract.

Let's say that I do the old "finger gun" at you and make a "bang!" sound. Something very trivial. Did God know I was going to do that? Of course he did because, after all, He is unlimited in every way. He knows all, and all means all, even something as trivial as a finger gun and a bang. When did God have this knowledge? Fifteen minutes ago? An hour ago? Maybe Gabriel sent him a memo that said, "Hey, that guy is going to do that stupid finger gun thing again. Thinks he knows everything." No! He knew in infinity. His very power will not allow him not to know.

What do we know about things that God knows? They happen. Why? Because that is the very way God planned it from infinity. God does not plan things that do not happen. For one, that would prove Him to be wrong and therefore not God. Christians even say the same thing: God has a plan for your life.

Jeremiah 1:5 - "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Incidentally, it does not seem to me that Jeremiah had a choice in the matter. If Jeremiah decided, "Nope, I'm not going to be a prophet," then God would be proven wrong. This hearkens back to express, explicit, infinite, foreknowledge.

So, about this conversation. Did a God without limitations know I would be having this conversation with you? Absolutely, if we are to accept the Biblical doctrine. This conversation was/is locked, from infinity, by the very structure of infallible knowledge.

 

[irmadlad]

Your studies have lead you astray.
Faith is not the opposite of evidence-based truth.
Faith is not a leap in the dark.
It does not require us to close our eyes and ignore relevant evidence, it is not irrational.

You have misunderstood Hebrew 11:1, taking it out of context.

Faith is a “reasonable, action-oriented response grounded in the conviction that God’s invisible underlying realities are more certain than any apparent realities.” (Bates, Matthew W. 2017. Salvation by Allegiance Alone. p.19.)

The author of Hebrews goes on to tell of the responses that people of God performed, demonstrating their faith.
They saw what God had done in the past; they knew he is a promise-keeper, and by faith committed themselves to him.

Faith is observed by our obedience to him, particularly in difficult circumstances.

Personally, I have found that trying to understand God and his ways before taking this step of faith, rarely results in believing him.

At 70+ years old, your time is short.
Take a step.... he's given you reasons to believe.

Rob

RE: Faith is a “reasonable, action-oriented response grounded in the conviction that God’s invisible underlying realities are more certain than any apparent realities.” (Bates, Matthew W. 2017. Salvation by Allegiance Alone. p.19.)

Rob, everyone on the planet says this. All 8.4 billion of them say exactly the same thing you are saying. And as I've noted, every one of these religions claims exclusivity. Islam says there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet. Hinduism has its own framework for ultimate reality. Christianity says "no one comes to the Father except through me." They can't all be right. And if sincerity of belief were the test, they'd all pass. So sincerity can't be the test.

 

[irmadlad]

If you will not believe the word of God then exactly what would you believe?

For there to be the truth trifecta, there must be one singular truth trifecta. Not the Muslim version, or the SDA version, or the Mormon version, not the Christian version, et al. There can only be one.

 

[Silverhair]

• Free will defense (Plantinga and others): God values genuine freedom so highly that a world with free creatures who can choose evil is better than a world of automatons who cannot. But as I've noted, this addresses the creature's choice, not the Creator's prior decision.

• Greater good theodicies: God permits evil because it serves a greater purpose that humans may not fully comprehend. The book of Job wrestles with this directly and ultimately leaves the question largely unresolved.

• Soul-making theodicies (Hick): Suffering is necessary for spiritual growth and moral development. The world is a "vale of soul-making." I would argue this still doesn't justify the sheer scale of suffering.

• The "risk" perspective (open theism): Some modern theologians argue that God chose not to fully know future free choices - that God takes a genuine risk in creating. This directly challenges the premise of infinite foreknowledge as I laid it out, but it's a minority position in traditional Christianity.

• Calvinist/Reformed perspective: This tradition actually leans into my framing rather than away from it. God ordains all things, including the Fall, for His purposes. For example, the Westminster Confession essentially states this, but I find this answer morally difficult.

What I notice is that you do not refer to the word of God once but rather to men.

You are looking for answers in the wrong place.

Your intelligence seems to be your biggest roadblock.

We are told "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." for a reason.

You ask for evidence but how much evidence do you need. Most conclusions we reach, even in our daily lives, are based on probability, not absolute certainty.

 

[Silverhair]

Because that is the very way God planned it from infinity. God does not plan things that do not happen.

You are speaking of calvinist determinism not biblical free will.

 

[Silverhair]

For there to be the truth trifecta, there must be one singular truth trifecta. Not the Muslim version, or the SDA version, or the Mormon version, not the Christian version, et al. There can only be one.

There is, God's.

Now you just have to accept it.

 

[irmadlad]

What I notice is that you do not refer to the word of God once but rather to men.

You are looking for answers in the wrong place.

Your intelligence seems to be your biggest roadblock.

We are told "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." for a reason.

You ask for evidence but how much evidence do you need. Most conclusions we reach, even in our daily lives, are based on probability, not absolute certainty.

RE: What I notice is that you do not refer to the word of God once but rather to men.

Fine, that's fair, even tho I've been quoting the Bible since I got here. Here's one:

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So what's He saying? Just because you believe something, just because you hold these beliefs as fervent convictions, just because you believe in the God of the Bible, doesn't really mean anything. Many will say Lord, Lord.

James 2:19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Just because you believe something fervently and are convicted about it 100%, doesn't make it true. Just because I may believe the earth is flat, and the moon is made of cheese, doesn't make it factual. A gent by the name of “Mad” Mike Hughes was a fervent flat earth believer. He even went as far as to build a rocket to prove the earth is flat. He ultimately died in the attempt. I admire his faith and sincerity, but he was sincerely wrong.

 

[irmadlad]

You are speaking of calvinist determinism not biblical free will.

The question is this: Does the Biblical God, who says He knows the beginning from the end, know each and every minute thing about me? Yes. Why? Because his very power will not allow Him not to know. If He planned Revelations, then He planed everything. Fixed by infallible knowledge.

You can loop the explanation as many times as you like, but you always arrive at the same place: infallible foreknowledge of a specific outcome eliminates the possibility of any other outcome. The counterfactual isn't a parallel track you could have taken; it's a phantom - a road that never existed because God's knowledge foreclosed it before the universe began.

 

[irmadlad]

What I notice is that you do not refer to the word of God once but rather to men.

You are looking for answers in the wrong place.

Your intelligence seems to be your biggest roadblock.

We are told "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." for a reason.

You ask for evidence but how much evidence do you need. Most conclusions we reach, even in our daily lives, are based on probability, not absolute certainty.

RE: You ask for evidence but how much evidence do you need.

All of it. Every last jot and tilde. That is what the truth trifecta is all about: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

RE: Most conclusions we reach, even in our daily lives, are based on probability, not absolute certainty.

I disagree. Our planet is round in nature. We don't have faith it's round in nature, we know it is, and we can prove it. The wind exists. We don't have faith the wind exists, we know it, and we can prove it. However, am I to understand that your belief in God is based on probability and not absolute certainty? I'm not trying to trip you up. It's not a gotcha question.

RE: Your intelligence seems to be your biggest roadblock.

First, I'm not here to show off my vast intellect. That doesn't exist. I'm a man who reads prolifically trying to understand that which I see around me. Second, who gave me this intelligence, reason, logic? According to the Biblical doctrine, God did. It would seem to me that I should probably attempt to use it.

 

[Silverhair]

RE: What I notice is that you do not refer to the word of God once but rather to men.

Fine, that's fair, even tho I've been quoting the Bible since I got here. Here's one:

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So what's He saying? Just because you believe something, just because you hold these beliefs as fervent convictions, just because you believe in the God of the Bible, doesn't really mean anything. Many will say Lord, Lord.

James 2:19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Just because you believe something fervently and are convicted about it 100%, doesn't make it true. Just because I may believe the earth is flat, and the moon is made of cheese, doesn't make it factual. A gent by the name of “Mad” Mike Hughes was a fervent flat earth believer. He even went as far as to build a rocket to prove the earth is flat. He ultimately died in the attempt. I admire his faith and sincerity, but he was sincerely wrong.

I was responding to your post # 44.

Rather than just quoting random verses have you taken the time to look at the prophecies about Christ. How about looking at how fine tuned the universe is re creation. What about the extra biblical references to Christ.

Honesty what I see in your comments is someone that is trying to prove that his rejection of God is right. I have spent many hours speaking with people that claim to be searching and you do fit that bill quite well.

I asked you this already but you did not give me an answer.

If you can come up with a better answer for creation, prophecies, the death and resurrection of Christ then please provide it.

 

[irmadlad]

I was responding to your post # 44.

Rather than just quoting random verses have you taken the time to look at the prophecies about Christ. How about looking at how fine tuned the universe is re creation. What about the extra biblical references to Christ.

Honesty what I see in your comments is someone that is trying to prove that his rejection of God is right. I have spent many hours speaking with people that claim to be searching and you do fit that bill quite well.

I asked you this already but you did not give me an answer.

If you can come up with a better answer for creation, prophecies, the death and resurrection of Christ then please provide it.

RE: I asked you this already but you did not give me an answer.

I apologize. It was not intentional. I did not see your question.

RE: If you can come up with a better answer for creation, prophecies, the death and resurrection of Christ then please provide it.

Creation: Opposing view - evolution. We see evolution on a daily basis on this planet. If you do not believe that evolution exists, then the next time you go get a flu shot, ask the attending physician to administer the original serum. What has happened? External forces placed on these virus by nature itself and by man, they have evolved and continue to do so, daily. Life wants to live, even on such a microscopic level. It is the prime directive of all life on this planet; replication. If you do not replicate, your species dies with you.

Prophecies: Many, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people have made prophesies. Michel de Nostredame, to name one, made many, many prophesies. Many have seemed to come true, depending on your interpretation. Christians down throughout history, caught up in their weird fascination with numerology, have attempted to prophecy/predict when God would return. They gave away their possessions, which is Biblical, and went to a meeting spot to wait for God to return, only to be disappointed. Prophesies come and go, and they all have their very fervent followers. Are they true? Again, that depends on your interpretation.

The death and resurrection of Christ: Most historians will acknowledge that a Jesus of Nazareth, the person, existed, and had many fervent followers. After that, it gets rather sketchy. For one, being nailed to a cross through the palms of the hands really brings up some serious anatomy questions, even if you had a foot pedestal to push up on. Again, I realize you are convinced and fervent in your convictions. I respect that.

RE: Honesty what I see in your comments is someone that is trying to prove that his rejection of God is right.

In all honesty, why would you even come to that conclusion? I have not rejected anything. In fact, as I've mentioned, I've been reading and studying for a lifetime, trying to find the truth trifecta. I'm not here to agitate you. I'm not here because I have nothing better going on this rainy Saturday. Something, or someone in your past brought enough reasonable evidence to convince you. So, I'm asking that you bring the same reasonable evidence to me. Not just 'Read your Bible, God will reveal Himself.' I think it should be obvious at this point, I've actually cracked the binding of a Bible at least once or twice.

Thank you for your time and comment.

 

[Deacon]

RE: You ask for evidence but how much evidence do you need.

All of it. Every last jot and tilde. That is what the truth trifecta is all about: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

So knowledge is what you seek.
Has the knowledge that the earth is round given you rest?

You are walking the same path of many others in the past,
One of these, Qohelet, wrote:

I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.”
And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.
For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
Ecclesiastes 1:16–18 (ESV)

When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep,
then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out.
Ecclesiastes 8:16–17 (ESV)

Knowledge apart from a relationship with God merely provides you with a well-informed mind providing no meaningful purpose or resolution.

As much as I too am a searcher, and one who deeply enjoys the pursuit of knowledge, there is a deeper truth;
a Truth that provides rest for your soul.

Qohelet warns against these endless intellectual pursuits. He says, “of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh,” (Ecclesiastes 12:9-14).
Perpetual knowledge-seeking apart from a relationship with God is vanity.
Knowledge matters only when it serves the deeper purpose of developing a right relationship with God.

Rob

 

[Mike B]

Something, or someone in your past brought enough reasonable evidence to convince you. So, I'm asking that you bring the same reasonable evidence to me.

And, if you had this "reasonable evidence", what would yo do with it?

It's a fair question.

 

[Silverhair]

Creation: Opposing view - evolution.

Yes I understand evolution but it cannot account for how life started or how we have the various forms of life. The missing link is still missing. Even the simplest cell is very complex and they cannot even bring one of those about with all their experiments. But they do keep trying.



But before you can have evolution you have to have something that can evolve. You have not even dealt with creation. Where did all this come from.

Why is there something rather than nothing? That is a great question in philosophy.

The Christian answer: God. He is eternal, and He is the Creator of all things.

The humanist answer is best given here, it shows the folly of human thought:


"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Stephen Hawking

The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hawking_no_gods_necessary.html

Prophecies: Many, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people have made prophesies.

I am not concerned with the thousands of failed prophecies of man. The prophecies that you have to deal with are those found in scripture. In the OT false prophets were to be killed. But you would know that.

Just do a study of the prophecies of Christ in the OT.

Have you read Isaiah 53 or any of the other prophecies of Christ? If so how do you explain them?

The death and resurrection of Christ: Most historians will acknowledge that a Jesus of Nazareth, the person, existed, and had many fervent followers. After that, it gets rather sketchy. For one, being nailed to a cross through the palms of the hands really brings up some serious anatomy questions

I am not concerned with the thousands of failed prophecies of man. The prophecies that you have to deal with are those found in scripture. In the OT false prophets were to be killed. But you would know that.

Just do a study of the prophecies of Christ in the OT.

Have you read Isaiah 53 or any of the other prophecies of Christ? If so how do you explain them?

In all honesty, why would you even come to that conclusion? I have not rejected anything.

You are right someone and something in my past did provide reasonable evidence. The someone was my Dad. He told me that the bible is it’s own best commentary and a lifetime of study has shown that to be true. I have also done the research and found that extra biblical evidence confirms what the word of God has said. Be it historical, archaeological and later even medical.

Since you say you want the truth, a trifecta of evidence, then do the research yourself.

As has been famously been said “I can only lead you to the truth. I cannot make you believe it.”

 

[irmadlad]

So knowledge is what you seek.
Has the knowledge that the earth is round given you rest?

You are walking the same path of many others in the past,
One of these, Qohelet, wrote:

I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.”
And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.
For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
Ecclesiastes 1:16–18 (ESV)

When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep,
then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out.
Ecclesiastes 8:16–17 (ESV)

Knowledge apart from a relationship with God merely provides you with a well-informed mind providing no meaningful purpose or resolution.

As much as I too am a searcher, and one who deeply enjoys the pursuit of knowledge, there is a deeper truth;
a Truth that provides rest for your soul.

Qohelet warns against these endless intellectual pursuits. He says, “of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh,” (Ecclesiastes 12:9-14).
Perpetual knowledge-seeking apart from a relationship with God is vanity.
Knowledge matters only when it serves the deeper purpose of developing a right relationship with God.

Rob

RE: Has the knowledge that the earth is round given you rest?

Absolutely it does. Knowledge always puts one's mind and soul at rest. I am at rest with the world being round in nature because I know it is round in nature. Not because I have faith it's round in nature. All wisdom and knowledge starts with a single question, so why not ask it no matter how silly or redundant some might think the question is. I have always challenged myself to read and understand things that may be diametrically opposed to any conviction I may hold. You may walk away from the encounter unchanged in your convictions, but you will gain a more well rounded knowledge base, and you may pick up a point here or there that you may not have considered before.

RE: Qohelet warns against these endless intellectual pursuits.

It sounds to me like Qohelet got frustrated, gave up his pursuit of knowledge, and satiated himself with 'One can never know'. That's not me. I don't just shrug and say 'Oh well, I guess God works in mysterious ways' when He plainly has said over and over again, He does not. Who created me with this lust for knowledge? To know, rather than use circular reasoning? If it is, as Christians say, a gift from God, shouldn't I use it?

If the Bible says you can know, then knowledge requires evidence, by it's very structure. This is the very basis of science, which, by the way, is not anti God or anti Christian as some would think. At it's basis, science is man trying to wrap his brain around all that he sees. Science has never claimed to know everything. It's just man's quest to understand. When the hard questions come, or the answers are directly opposed to what we thought we knew, then it takes a reassessment. We don't just throw up our hands, shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well, I guess we'll never know. It's a mystery'. When the ancient Egyptians viewed the fiery ball that traversed the sky everyday bringing warmth and fertility to the Nile delta, they assumed it must be a benevolent God driving his fiery chariot across the sky. Well, we now know that's ludicrous. Why? The pursuit of knowledge.

People have dedicated their lives to knowledge of even a single topic. Marie Curie died from illness related to long exposure to radiation while working on radioactivity research. When you go get an x-ray, say 'Thank you' to Marie Curie. She paved the way, gave her life, so you can get an x-ray in the safest manner possible and receive medical care. The very comfort you experience on a daily basis as a human living on this planet in 2026, is due solely to the pursuit of knowledge. The very complex means of communication we are both using simultaneously on this forum, is due solely to the pursuit of knowledge. Take a look at your mobile phone for a second and contemplate that at no other time in human history have we had to sum total of the world's knowledge in the palm of our hand. The great libraries of Alexandria would look like my magazine rack in comparison. Most people use this technology to play Candy Crush and send funny pictures to each other. What a waste. However, still due to the pursuit of knowledge.

RE: Knowledge matters only when it serves the deeper purpose of developing a right relationship with God.

So, what is it you presume I'm trying to do; be argumentative? I'm a very old man with a hundred or so hobbies. I've got things I could be doing besides drumming up drama on a Christian forum. I can only speak from my personal experience with Christians, and I am not trying to paint all Christians with a broad brush. However, I have sat out on my porch and spoke with Muslims of these very same questions for hours, just tailored to their beliefs, because these issues transcend religious boundaries. Very open people, willing to talk. In fact, that's where I received my copy of the Quran. You should read it sometime. Quite fascinating. Almost directly parallels the Old Testament. Jehovah's Witnesses will sit on the porch so long as you do. Mormons? Very willing to converse about these topics. I sat on my porch with a couple of guys in Judaism so long, I told them we'd either have to reschedule or I'd have to fire up the grill and cook us something to eat.

However, and again, this is my personal experience; when it comes to Christians, there is this immediate tension. The shields go up, and they get rather defensive that I would even dare to question their beliefs. As I've said previously, I'm a huge IT geek from back in the 70s. Go ahead and ask me what happens between the time you click a link on a webpage and the data is displayed on your screen. Something you take for granted hundreds of times a day. Go ahead, I dare you. It might take weeks even, but when we're finished, you will have a thorough understanding of the 7 layers of the OSI model, and how global internet communications works. If I can't answer your questions, I'll find someone who can. That's a promise.

Knowledge. It's where it's at.

 

[irmadlad]

Yes I understand evolution but it cannot account for how life started or how we have the various forms of life. The missing link is still missing. Even the simplest cell is very complex and they cannot even bring one of those about with all their experiments. But they do keep trying.



But before you can have evolution you have to have something that can evolve. You have not even dealt with creation. Where did all this come from.

Why is there something rather than nothing? That is a great question in philosophy.

The Christian answer: God. He is eternal, and He is the Creator of all things.

The humanist answer is best given here, it shows the folly of human thought:


"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Stephen Hawking

The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hawking_no_gods_necessary.html

I am not concerned with the thousands of failed prophecies of man. The prophecies that you have to deal with are those found in scripture. In the OT false prophets were to be killed. But you would know that.

Just do a study of the prophecies of Christ in the OT.

Have you read Isaiah 53 or any of the other prophecies of Christ? If so how do you explain them?


I am not concerned with the thousands of failed prophecies of man. The prophecies that you have to deal with are those found in scripture. In the OT false prophets were to be killed. But you would know that.

Just do a study of the prophecies of Christ in the OT.

Have you read Isaiah 53 or any of the other prophecies of Christ? If so how do you explain them?


You are right someone and something in my past did provide reasonable evidence. The someone was my Dad. He told me that the bible is it’s own best commentary and a lifetime of study has shown that to be true. I have also done the research and found that extra biblical evidence confirms what the word of God has said. Be it historical, archaeological and later even medical.

Since you say you want the truth, a trifecta of evidence, then do the research yourself.

As has been famously been said “I can only lead you to the truth. I cannot make you believe it.”

RE: The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?

Yes, I'm familiar with Hawking. Christians are quick to ask 'What created the Big Bang?' so then the fair question would be 'What created your God?' Just because we do not know something, doesn't mean we give up trying to know. If we did that, we'd all still be scrawling on cave walls with a burnt piece of wood, and grunting at each other, worshiping a fiery ball that traversed the sky, we mistakenly interpreted to be a benevolent God . Just because Hawking didn't give explicit explanation of why the laws of physics exist, doesn't make them the work of a deity. It just means that at this point in human history, we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle.

We haven't just thrown up our hands an quit trying to know, fobbing off the unknown to be the work of a benevolent God. Reference ancient Egyptians, RA the sun god, and his fiery chariot, which we now know to be absolutely ludicrous. Galileo argued for Copernican heliocentrism using evidence like the phases of Venus and telescope observations. Church authorities initially treated heliocentrism as not conclusively proven and pressed that it not be presented as settled truth in conflict with Scripture interpretations. Again, the pursuit of knowledge has shown us that heliocentrism is a fact.

RE: Have you read Isaiah 53 or any of the other prophecies of Christ? If so how do you explain them?

I have never counted the numerous times I've read the Christian Bible, however I have thoroughly read it so many times, even the begats. I'm now reading the Apocrypha. All the books of the Bible the pope deemed unnecessary for the common man to know. How do I explain prophesies that seemed to come true? Interpretation. Again, reference the last paragraph in relation to the Church, it's inteperation or our solar system against heliocentrism. Just about any text can be interpreted to mean something that that may or may not be accurate. Christians are always arguing about how the religious manuscripts are to be translated and interpreted. Scholars have dedicated their lives to the interpretation of religious texts. The quatrains of Nostradamus are subject to all manner of interpretations. It's along the lines of viewing a mirage. Sure, it looks like there's a vast lake on the horizon, but not really accurate upon closer examination.

RE: I have also done the research and found that extra biblical evidence confirms what the word of God has said. Be it historical, archaeological and later even medical.

Do share.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, I'm familiar with Hawking. Christians are quick to ask 'What created the Big Bang?' so then the fair question would be 'What created your God?'

If you are familiar with Hawking then you should also be familiar with the lack of logic in his statement. How can nothing create something?

The fact that we have the creation that we see points to something powerful and intelligent. We do have to create God He is self evident.

I have thoroughly read it so many times, even the begats.

Have you actually read and studied the prophecies found in scripture? Have them been proven to be true or false?

If false then reject them but if true then why do you not believe them?

Do share.

Do your own research as it will be much better for you to put in the work yourself. I say this because you do have the habit of rejecting whatever is presented to you.

What I do see is someone that is not looking for truth but someone that claims they are looking for truth.

It is quite obvious that you have things in your life that you do not want to give up which you would have to do if you chose to follow Jesus. What they are I do not know but you do and if you were honest with yourself you would acknowledge that is the real reason you continue to search. You want a religion or a philosophy that allows you to continue to live as you please.

If you have been searching for years it is not because the information is not there it is because you do not like where the information leads.

Sorry to be so harsh but you remind me of my brother, a smart man but he is not willing to give up the things he likes that do not fit the Christian life.

I and others on this and I should think on other boards have pointed you to the truth but it seems you continue to reject those truths.

I do pray that God will open your eyes so the truth will get past the walls you have built.

 

[Mike B]

Madlad, I see that you have declined to respond to my recent questions. That's OK,
as your silence tells me much.

It seems that you have a wealth of knowledge, but are lacking in spiritual discernment.
Have to ask...have you ever earnestly prayed to God? Believing in your heart that He is there, and
hears your words? Do not fear, He is not going to smite you for asking for help and spiritual
understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the
Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto
him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The members here have shared a great deal with you, but as Silverhair has pointed out, you
quickly dismiss it all. It's as if we are putting our efforts into trying to fill a bag full of holes.

Reach out to God, and ask Him for help, and guidance for seeking truth.

As for myself, I can offer you nothing further other than my prayers that God would open your
heart and eyes to the truth that is in Jesus Christ.

 

[Deacon]

RE: Knowledge matters only when it serves the deeper purpose of developing a right relationship with God.

So, what is it you presume I'm trying to do; be argumentative? I'm a very old man with a hundred or so hobbies. I've got things I could be doing besides drumming up drama on a Christian forum. I can only speak from my personal experience with Christians, and I am not trying to paint all Christians with a broad brush. However, I have sat out on my porch and spoke with Muslims of these very same questions for hours, just tailored to their beliefs, because these issues transcend religious boundaries. Very open people, willing to talk. In fact, that's where I received my copy of the Quran. You should read it sometime. Quite fascinating. Almost directly parallels the Old Testament. Jehovah's Witnesses will sit on the porch so long as you do. Mormons? Very willing to converse about these topics. I sat on my porch with a couple of guys in Judaism so long, I told them we'd either have to reschedule or I'd have to fire up the grill and cook us something to eat.

However, and again, this is my personal experience; when it comes to Christians, there is this immediate tension. The shields go up, and they get rather defensive that I would even dare to question their beliefs. As I've said previously, I'm a huge IT geek from back in the 70s. Go ahead and ask me what happens between the time you click a link on a webpage and the data is displayed on your screen. Something you take for granted hundreds of times a day. Go ahead, I dare you. It might take weeks even, but when we're finished, you will have a thorough understanding of the 7 layers of the OSI model, and how global internet communications works. If I can't answer your questions, I'll find someone who can. That's a promise.

Knowledge. It's where it's at.

Although the conversion has been direct and pointed, I don't believe we've taken a 'shields are up' orientation.
There's nothing you've mentioned that hasn't already been discussed in depth here on the BaptistBoard.

We are simply doing what Baptist's do, attempting to direct you towards a place that will begin to bring you rest from your endless searching.

You've investigated many religions but have never committed to any.
You've noted parallels, but haven't noted the significant differences.
You seem to be fascinated by the search but can't commit to any religious worldview.
The knowledge you've gained is like sand, ever shifting and unstable; only as stable as the current paradigm.

We are asking you to: 'Choose this day whom you will serve' (Joshua 24:15).

Rob

 

[irmadlad]

Madlad, I see that you have declined to respond to my recent questions. That's OK,
as your silence tells me much.

It seems that you have a wealth of knowledge, but are lacking in spiritual discernment.
Have to ask...have you ever earnestly prayed to God? Believing in your heart that He is there, and
hears your words? Do not fear, He is not going to smite you for asking for help and spiritual
understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the
Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto
him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The members here have shared a great deal with you, but as Silverhair has pointed out, you
quickly dismiss it all. It's as if we are putting our efforts into trying to fill a bag full of holes.

Reach out to God, and ask Him for help, and guidance for seeking truth.

As for myself, I can offer you nothing further other than my prayers that God would open your
heart and eyes to the truth that is in Jesus Christ.

RE: Madlad, I see that you have declined to respond to my recent questions. That's OK, as your silence tells me much.

Or, Mike, it might just be possible I did not see your question and my silence is evidence of that fact. If you will point me to your question, or re-ask your question, I'll be more that happy to answer it. I've never been shy a day in my life. These BB/php forums are pretty old school and hard to track multiple comments, at least for me.

RE: The members here have shared a great deal with you, but as Silverhair has pointed out, you quickly dismiss it all. It's as if we are putting our efforts into trying to fill a bag full of holes.

What you have given me are beliefs. You haven't given me the evidence of your knowledge, neither has Silverhair. Oh, you're good at citing scripture, and I realize that you are convinced in your convictions. I respect that, but so are 8.4 billion other people on this planet.

Christians point the the Judeo-Christian Bible as evidence. Muslims point the the Qu'ran as evidence. Hindus point tho their Vedas, Upanishads, Smriti texts, Bhagavad Gita, et al as evidence. They all can't be right, and they all can't be wrong. Do you understand that this is circular reasoning, which gets you nowhere but where you started?

Carrying this logic, I should be able to claim that Horton the elephant is a real elephant that sits in a tree and hatches eggs for a very cranky and irresponsible bird because I have a book by Dr. Seuss that indicates such. Now, obviously we realize that this is fiction, even though Dr. Seuss penned some good guidelines to live life by, and a few good moral tidbits.

Silverhair talks about prophesies in the Christian Bible that have come true. Do you understand that this is not unique to Christianity? Most all religious texts have prophesies that their fervent followers believe have come true, depending on how you read and translate the text. Most all religions, even tribal religions have common threads such as a flood, a redeemer, an eternal reward, an eternal damnation. an end of times. These things are not unique. Well, not totally accurate. Judaism doesn't recognize the New Testament, doesn't believe in eternal damnation, or that Lucifer exists. In their theology, Satan does exist and is a messenger of God that is sent to tempt mankind, tho I don't understand why when a God without limitations who already knows the outcome of such temptations, would do that. Judaism, like Jehovah's witnesses do believe in selective annihilation but no eternal torment.

Christians say 'Just read the Bible, God will reveal himself to you'. That's the same thing a Muslim gent told me when he handed me a copy of the Qu'ran: "Read this. Alah will reveal himself to you through his words'. I feel no more interfaced with either after reading, than I did before reading.

Well, if you have no more words for me, then I wish you well. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. Let me know if you want some info on that OSI model. I'll spool you right up, with information and evidence as it is easily proven.