The DNA of Jesus?

[David Lamb]

No, Mary was saved before she could sin, we are saved after we sinned.

Mary had to be Holy and Immaculate for the Incarnation of God to happen of her flesh. She is Ark of the New Covenant.
The sinless enemy of the serpent, the rest of humanity was the enemy of God by sin since the Fall.

From the first parents all mankind was enemies of God because of sin, but God promised He would make the woman the serpent’s enemy by no sin, and her offspring would crush his head.

But if you say that Mary had to be holy and immaculate from conception for the incarnation of Jesus Christ to take place, why wouldn't her parents have needed to be equally holy and immaculate from conception in order for Mary to be immaculately conceived? And she had two human parents!

 

[Cathode]

I see. You noticed the word “overshadow” is used in two different verses and believe there is a connection.

Since the second reference is to Mary and the power of God Holy Spirit “overshadowing” her at the conception of Jesus, you think Mary is connected to the Ark of the covenant and the reference to the wings of the cherubim “overshadowing” the mercy seat?

I would have to research the issue to see if scholars make that connection, perhaps as foreshadowing the birth of Jesus as replacing the mercy seat.

If there is a connection, it would be to Jesus, not Mary, imo.

Again, the woman in Gen. 3 is Eve, not Mary.

Your focus on Mary is unbiblical, imo, and simply takes our attention of Jesus, where it should be.

Mary can forgive no one. Mary can give grace to no one. Mary can save no one.

Mary certainly has the privilege of being chosen by God to bare the Messiah.

She was not sinless, however. She was not a perpetual virgin (scripture clearly states Jesus had four brothers and at least two sisters). She is not a “co-redeemer” with Jesus.

Peace to you

You mean well mate, but you don’t understand this.
Scripture is far more profound than your surface level understanding of it. Not detracting from you, like I said, this Holy ground this subject.

Calling Mary a sinner is like an Israelite slapping the Ark of the Covenant with his muddy hand.
A wise man hears a warning and takes note and takes caution, and reserves his judgment in case. This costs him nothing.

The arrogant man hears a warning, and he blunders forward ignorant of his ignorance.

God guards His Throne, be told.
To detract from His Throne is to detract from Him. The Throne only magnifies the one it contains, but it also magnifies the petitions set before it.

Just as prayers and petitions are heard acutely from the Throne as The Ark of the Covenant, insults and detraction are also heard acutely.

Mary is Jesus living Throne, The Ark of the New Covenant.

The Throne though it is a created thing, a creature, it is set in an exulted place for an exulted purpose, to exult the One who resides in it.
Honouring it only honours the One in it the more.

 

[Cathode]

But if you say that Mary had to be holy and immaculate from conception for the incarnation of Jesus Christ to take place, why wouldn't her parents have needed to be equally holy and immaculate from conception in order for Mary to be immaculately conceived? And she had two human parents!

No, God promised to put enmity between the woman and the serpent.

Gracing Mary’s Immaculate Conception was God putting enmity between the woman and the serpent.

“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

Believe it, Mary wasn’t kidding.

The Almighty preserved Mary by Grace at her Conception from original sin and all personal sin.

When we are conceived we inherited original sin and are enemies of God.

When Mary was Conceived, The Almighty preserved her from original and personal sin by His Grace, making her an enemy Satan not God.
This was for Mary’s special mission to be the Mother of God, to Incarnate God from her Immaculate flesh.

Sinful flesh could not redeem sinful flesh, Jesus immaculate of the immaculate flesh of Mary could.
The unblemished Lamb of sacrifice who takes away the sin of the world, redeeming sinful fallen flesh.
It is by His Immaculate Flesh we will be resurrected and live forever.

 

[Salty]

Gracing Mary’s Immaculate Conception was God putting enmity between the woman and the serpent.

The Almighty preserved Mary by Grace at her Conception from original sin and all personal sin.


When Mary was Conceived, The Almighty preserved her from original and personal sin by His Grace, making her an enemy Satan not God.
This was for Mary’s special mission to be the Mother of God, to Incarnate God from her Immaculate flesh.

Sinful flesh could not redeem sinful flesh, Jesus immaculate of the immaculate flesh of Mary could.

Unless, I missed it - What Scripture reference do you have for the above doctrines?

 

[Cathode]

Unless, I missed it - What Scripture reference do you have for the above doctrines?

There are heaps to reference, bear with me mate, I have a dodgy connection and I’m using a phone.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It is by His Immaculate Flesh we will be resurrected and live forever.

The Bible tells us that it is by His death and resurrection that we shall be saved.
I really don't need to go into your unbiblical musings. If Mary needed to be sinless from birth, so did her mother and her grandmother and so on ad infinitum. The Roman Catholics have invented a mother for her, Anne, who is never mentioned in the Bible, but if she was a sinner, how could Mary be sinless?
The Lord Jesus was without sin. We are told that several times in the Bible. We are never told that Mary was sinless; indeed, she needed to trust in God's promises to be saved by faith as I have pointed out.
Just believe the Bible, Cathode, and forget all the inventions of Rome.

 

[Cathode]

The Bible tells us that it is by His death and resurrection that we shall be saved.
I really don't need to go into your unbiblical musings. If Mary needed to be sinless from birth, so did her mother and her grandmother and so on ad infinitum. The Roman Catholics have invented a mother for her, Anne, who is never mentioned in the Bible, but if she was a sinner, how could Mary be sinless?
The Lord Jesus was without sin. We are told that several times in the Bible. We are never told that Mary was sinless; indeed, she needed to trust in God's promises to be saved by faith as I have pointed out.
Just believe the Bible, Cathode, and forget all the inventions of Rome.

I do believe the Bible, that is what I have quoted throughout the thread.
I can even provide Church Fathers quoting the same scriptures.

The Bible tells us that it is by His death and resurrection that we shall be saved.

Jesus tells us:

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day “

How does that fit with what I wrote.

“It is by His Immaculate Flesh we will be resurrected and live forever”

Mary’s Immaculate conception was the prophecied enmity God would put between the serpent and the woman in Genesis. Even explained this.

“ My spirit rejoices in God my Savior “

Mary is already saved. Her Immaculate Conception.

“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

One of those great things was making Mary the enemy of Satan by her Immaculate conception, preserving/saving her by Gods Grace.

I have made many of these allusions to scripture assuming I was conversing with a seasoned Bible aloner who would instantly recognise the scripture alluded to.

Do I assume you don’t know the scriptures at all Martin?

If I had to do an exhaustive exposition of scripture I’d have to go to 30,000 word essays on each post.

If God didn’t intervene at Mary’s conception she would have inherited original sin through her parents. Instead God put enmity between the serpent and Mary by preserving her by His Grace.

 

[Salty]

Lets try this one LALST TIME
Scripture reference !!!

 

[Cathode]

Lets try this one LALST TIME
Scripture reference !!!

I quoted the scriptures, they didn’t have the chapters and verses I know.

I’m posting 5 times to get one post through for some reason, I press post reply and it doesn’t work freezes and lose my post. Have to copy the post, close window, reload the site, delete a partial post, paste the completed reply, press post reply and hope it uploads.

All from a tiny phone in the dark, from the arse end of the planet, while eating a pie, and shooting feral foxes.

 

[Walter]

What I find to be convincing is the fact that God is not going to inhabit an unclean temple. In Luke 1, Mary is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, mirroring how the Glory of the Lord filled the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant. 'The Church has reasoned that if God demanded an incorruptible, pure vessel of acacia wood to house the stone tablets of the old law, He would naturally prepare a spotless, sinless vessel (Mary) to carry the Word of God incarnate.'

I know Cathode has covered this, but I also know that Baptists are generally hesitant to give weight to OT typology.

 

[Cathode]

What I find to be convincing is the fact that God is not going to inhabit an unclean temple. In Luke 1, Mary is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, mirroring how the Glory of the Lord filled the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant. 'The Church has reasoned that if God demanded an incorruptible, pure vessel of acacia wood to house the stone tablets of the old law, He would naturally prepare a spotless, sinless vessel (Mary) to carry the Word of God incarnate.'

I know Cathode has covered this, but I also know that Baptists are generally hesitant to giving weight to OT typology.

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is Old Testament revealed. Attributed to Augustine I think.

Typology is an excellent way to understand scripture in both testaments.

Can you see the scripture references I’m making in this thread Walter?

 

[Walter]

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is Old Testament revealed. Attributed to Augustine I think.

Typology is an excellent way to understand scripture in both testaments.

Can you see the scripture references I’m making in this thread Walter?

You have presented biblical support showing the necessity of Mary's immaculate conception. They are using the same tactics JW's use to challenge the doctrine of the Trinity.

How big is their God? Is God capable of preparing a spotless vessel for The Incarnate Word or not? And, wouldn't that be necessary and fitting?

 

[Cathode]

You have presented biblical support showing the necessity of Mary's immaculate conception. They are using the same tactics JW's use to challenge the doctrine of the Trinity.

How big is their God? Is God capable of preparing a spotless vessel for The Incarnate Word or not? And, wouldn't that be necessary and fitting?

It all ties in scripturally but if we look at the Fathers take, it’s the same understanding of scripture.