Church Worship singing and music

[JonC]

And contemporary “worship” ?? music has very little melody and is extremely repetitive, traditional hymns have very little repeated lyrics but the same courus lines.

Traditional hymns suffer a bit with that but there are plenty that would blow contemporary music to shame they’re called 7 words 11 times songs, your argument is extremely weak.

Lol...no...contemporary worship music has more melody (it has a broader range of melody than traditional hymns).

Traditional hymns use a very narrow melody range while Contemporary Worship Music makes more use of melody.

You lost your argument when you clained that contemporary praise music lacks melody (just like you lost your other argument about lyrics when you said Psalm 136 was "a ridiculous song" that is "repetative and dull".

The worship of a congregation is between that congregation and God. You are obsolete.

I am not making an argument - except that we sin when we judge the worship of other Christians.

I am stating facts. You find contemporary praise dull. I find traditional hymns dull. So what? I am certainly not telling you that you should not use hymns. That would be sinful (I'd not only be disobeying God by judging your music but I would be playing God by insisting He shares my preferences).

 

[Its_real_for me !]

Lol...no...contemporary worship music has more melody (it has a broader range of melody than traditional hymns).

Traditional hymns use a very narrow melody range while Contemporary Worship Music makes more use of melody.

You lost your argument when you clained that contemporary praise music lacks melody (just like you lost your other argument about lyrics when you said Psalm 136 was "a ridiculous song" that is "repetative and dull".

The worship of a congregation is between that congregation and God. You are obsolete.

I am not making an argument - except that we sin when we judge the worship of other Christians.

I am stating facts. You find contemporary praise dull. I find traditional hymns dull. So what? I am certainly not telling you that you should not use hymns. That would be sinful (I'd not only be disobeying God by judging your music but I would be playing God by insisting He shares my preferences).

I’m gonna leave you with this, l used to belong to two churches with your music and couldn’t stand it. If you think traditional hymns are dull you have heard enough of them.

 

[JonC]

I’m gonna leave you with this, l used to belong to two churches with your music and couldn’t stand it. If you think traditional hymns are dull you have heard enough of them.

I probably have heard all of the traditional hymns. I grew up singing them.

I like most of them (the lyrics), but not the music. Most hymns do not praise God (most are testimonies... like "How Great Thou Art", which is one of my favorites...or designed to teach theological elements (either biblical or from a particular sect).

I didn't like Contemporary Praise at first. Then I realized that most are actually passages (sometimes entire psalms), so I couldn't complain about the lyrics. Many ate hymns set to better music.


That said, if you hate Contemporary Praise music then nobody says you have to sing it. Those who hate the music that accompanies traditional hymns do not have to use it either.

We worship in spirit and truth. This means our worship styles will be different. We certainly do not use the styles of songs used in the Bible. They certainly did not sing songs in the style of traditional hymns.


I never once complained about you not liking praise music or about you liking hymns. Not once.

What I said was IF a "Christian" condemned the worship music of a believer THEN that person is either not a Christian or they are a Christian in direct disobefience to God.

This applies to those who condemn Contemporary Praise, traditional hymns, the melodic chants of biblical music (without harmony), shouting and praising God with loud cymbols, horns, drums and stringed instruments, etc. because it is not their style.

I have found that hymns and contemporary worship music are theologically rich. Both have sings of testimony. Both have praise songs. But contemporary worship music focuses more on praising God (it focuses more on God) while traditional hymns focus more on man and teaching doctrine.

Hymns will continue to decline because more and more Christians cannot worship authentically with the style of music. Many will remain in lyrics.

But that is what always happens. At one time our traditional hymns were new. And traditional people condemned these hymns for being too secular, too worldly in style, for abandoning Scripture to sing testimony and teach theology.

They were wrong. You now find yourself in their place and are taking up the condemnation they had against you. The abused has become the abuser.

 

[Its_real_for me !]

Hymns will continue to decline because more and more Christians cannot worship authentically with the style of music. Many will remain in lyrics.

hymns will continue decline just as much as anything else in this world that declines, popularity. It was a phase or a trend to people know a days have to be catered to or pacified to be comfortable and most of all entertained. That's what it's all about.

What I said was IF a "Christian" condemned the worship music of a believer THEN that person is either not a Christian or they are a Christian in direct disobefience to God

LOL wow really ?? I have to say you have no clue what your talking about.

 

[Mike B]

The point was worship in spirit and truth with all we are - not just the mind but also the heart.

Amen! A worship song should have your heart reaching out to God, telling Him of
your love for Him, thanking Him for His grace, and expressing our joy at being able
to enjoy His wonderful creation of life.

 

[Mike B]

Its real....

Could you share the names of a few worship songs you like, or that you feel are
suitable?

People saying "I like this", or "Don't like this" is much easier to understand when examples
are provided.

 

[Its_real_for me !]

Its real....

Could you share the names of a few worship songs you like, or that you feel are
suitable?

People saying "I like this", or "Don't like this" is much easier to understand when examples
are provided.

Been awhile since I heard these sung in a choir, but they can't be beat. The thing to keep in mind is the writers wrote these songs from experiences. Not saying Psalms weren't.

And can It be
How can it be
Heaven came down and glory filled my soul
Praise Him Praise Him
God leads us along
Lily of the valley
Singing I go
Saved By grace
Until Then
It is well with my soul

alot more but don't feel like going through three hymnals

 

[Mike B]

And can It be
How can it be
Heaven came down and glory filled my soul
Praise Him Praise Him
God leads us along
Lily of the valley
Singing I go
Saved By grace
Until Then
It is well with my soul

Love 'em, all.

In my experience, you'll most likely find these, and others like them, at an IFB church. I should
have asked that question a few days ago....would have saved a lot of typing..

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What I am saying is you have no justification in saying that God only likes the music you like. The only music God has ever commanded was heartfelt and emotional (then it was shouting His glory, clanging cymbols, beating drums, blowing horns, using lyres).

I think that one thing we need to remember is that there was no amplification in ancient times. The Temple was a pretty large place and it needed a load of musicians just to be heard.
The other thing is that I don't know where you find the drums. King David seems to have laid down rules for Temple worship in 1 Chron. 25:1 and elsewhere, and you will see that these included harps, stringed instruments and cymbals. Priests blew trumpets, but musicians didn't (1 Chron. 16:6; 2 Chron. 5:12; 7:6-7). I'm not sure what to make of this. Perhaps the priests were marking intervals in the worship. In Psalm 81:1-3, the timbrel and the harp were used to accompany a song; the trumpets were to mark a special occasion.
In Nehemiah 12:27, we see cymbals, stringed instruments and harps being played, and in v.36, these are described as 'the musical instruments of David the man of God' (cf. also 1 Chron. 23:5).

 

[Its_real_for me !]

Ephesians 5:19

"speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord"

speaking to yourselves in psalms, (not corporate worship song but not music). Hymns, (simpler form of songs), Spiritual songs (non-carnal that is human), guess there is nothing to compare to, from that time period. Singing and making melody in your heart.... sounds to me that would be outside instruments. There is no command in the NT to use musical instruments.

 

[JonC]

I think that one thing we need to remember is that there was no amplification in ancient times. The Temple was a pretty large place and it needed a load of musicians just to be heard.
The other thing is that I don't know where you find the drums. King David seems to have laid down rules for Temple worship in 1 Chron. 25:1 and elsewhere, and you will see that these included harps, stringed instruments and cymbals. Priests blew trumpets, but musicians didn't (1 Chron. 16:6; 2 Chron. 5:12; 7:6-7). I'm not sure what to make of this. Perhaps the priests were marking intervals in the worship. In Psalm 81:1-3, the timbrel and the harp were used to accompany a song; the trumpets were to mark a special occasion.
In Nehemiah 12:27, we see cymbals, stringed instruments and harps being played, and in v.36, these are described as 'the musical instruments of David the man of God' (cf. also 1 Chron. 23:5).

It always amazed me to hear accounts of people speaking to large crowds without artificial amplification and being clearly heard throughout the assembly. George Whitfield vomes to mind.

The reason they played loud (according to ancient Jewish accounts) was to highlight the might and power of God. This makes sence reading many of the psalms (it would be odd to quietly sing of God's power and deliverance, it'd almost be disrespectful).

There are accounts of Temple worship echoing throughout Jerusalem.

I think the Temple design would have provided amplification. Singing was outside the Nicanor Gate, the next area bring the Court of Women then the Court of Gentiles. With the Temple structure behind them I would think it would be almost like an amphitheater.

 

[Its_real_for me !]

It always amazed me to hear accounts of people speaking to large crowds without artificial amplification and being clearly heard throughout the assembly. George Whitfield vomes to mind.

The reason they played loud (according to ancient Jewish accounts) was to highlight the might and power of God. This makes sence reading many of the psalms (it would be odd to quietly sing of God's power and deliverance, it'd almost be disrespectful).

There are accounts of Temple worship echoing throughout Jerusalem.

I think the Temple design would have provided amplification. Singing was outside the Nicanor Gate, the next area bring the Court of Women then the Court of Gentiles. With the Temple structure behind them I would think it would be almost like an amphitheater.

You keep pushing OT worship and NT doesn’t mention it at all, other than Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16, James 5:13, nothing about echoing music.

There are accounts of Temple worship echoing throughout Jerusalem

OT worship

disrespectful???

Hear the word of God, believe the word of God, and obey the Word Of God. We live in the NT.

 

[JonC]

You keep pushing OT worship and NT doesn’t mention it at all, other than Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16, James 5:13, nothing about echoing music.


OT worship



Hear the word of God, believe the word of God, and obey the Word Of God. We live in the NT.

I am not pushing Old Testament worship. You are not reading my posts.

What I have been talking about is NEW TESTAMENT worship.

The Christians in the New Testament did not sing hymns in the style of our traditional hymns. Our the music of our traditional hymns are dependent on harmony. Harmony was a 9th century development which developed through the 15th century.

Our traditional hymns (the music) would be inappropriate for the worship of the New Testament church.


I did note the fact that the Old Testament describes God as desiring singing, shouting praise, loud cymbals, and stringed instruments.

I also noted that there is absolutely no mention of music styles in the New Testament.

You say the Jewish people changed the music they used in worship when they became Christian. But that is just you stealing oxygen from the public. It is a useless idea you just conjured up because you prefer solemn music.

Christian worship music did not become solomn until the Middle Ages with the liturgical eorship pf the Roman Catholic Church (as Latin chants became the dominent form of worship).

Your preferences are not based on the Bible but on the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Its_real_for me !]

I am not pushing Old Testament worship. You are not reading my posts.

What I have been talking about is NEW TESTAMENT worship.

The Christians in the New Testament did not sing hymns in the style of our traditional hymns. Our the music of our traditional hymns are dependent on harmony. Harmony was a 9th century development which developed through the 15th century.

Our traditional hymns (the music) would be inappropriate for the worship of the New Testament church.


I did note the fact that the Old Testament describes God as desiring singing, shouting praise, loud cymbals, and stringed instruments.

I also noted that there is absolutely no mention of music styles in the New Testament.

You say the Jewish people changed the music they used in worship when they became Christian. But that is just you stealing oxygen from the public. It is a useless idea you just conjured up because you prefer solemn music.

Christian worship music did not become solomn until the Middle Ages with the liturgical eorship pf the Roman Catholic Church (as Latin chants became the dominent form of worship).

Your preferences are not based on the Bible but on the Roman Catholic Church.

Poppycock… the verses l posted verses the ones from Martin and the chronicles isn’t from the Catholic Church, although they use organs. Don’t put me in that category.

Where is it instrumental in this verse ?? It’s not

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him SING psalms.

It’s not accompanied with instruments.