Zionism Undermines our Gospel

[Van]

Judeo-Christian? Those two are non-compatible. One side denies Christ, the other loves Christ. As far as their view of Christ is concerned, Muslims have a higher view of Him, by far, than the modern Jews that you seem bent on defending.

Sir "Truth, Justice and Mercy" are found in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. By not being "comparable" I assume you mean the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant, and its only purpose is to help lead the lost to Christ.

The rest of your post is utter nonsense. Mass murders do not worship Christ.

And I plead guilt as charged, I oppose anti-semitism and try to defend truth.

 

[asterisktom]

I think what @asterisktom is referring to is the BBB reporter reporting that the building had collapsed when the report was actually that a collapse was imminent.

WTC2 had collapsed and due to the damage snd people duspected WTC1 was to collapse. The BBC made a mistake but it was repeated on other outlets. Media often makes such mistakes in early reporting.

I also do not know what this has to do with the topic.

It had to do with John's calling BBC a neutral source. But to explain my reasons for why this is not the case would take a lot more time and effort. Any why bother. Most of you guys here are pretty much invested in this false narrative.

My underlying reason - and one I don't mind getting into more - is John's seeming over-reliance on certain sources: news sites, books, etc. to the detriment of the Bible.

 

[asterisktom]

The point was, I don't care!! That BBC goof has absolutely nothing whatsoever, nothing in the slightest to do with this BB discussion! I suspect you brought it up to obfuscate, because there is so much you have not answered. Such as, please comment on the Democrat congress people who backed off from calling the Israeli actions in Gaza a genocide. You have totally ignored that and other sourced points I have made.

Look John, I am not trying to pull your chain. I am not obfuscating. I am just trying to get you to see that you over-rely on certain sources: news sites, books, etc. to the detriment of the Bible. This is really apparent with regard to the Samaritan Parable, insisting "it is a mistake to make theology from a parable. They are like sermon illustrations, there to illuminate the truth, not communicate it."

And I alluded to just one of several commentators that actually made the very "mistake" that you chided me for. To say that our Lord (the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the Life!), in that Parable, was Illuminating one truth, not communicating it - well, that is a tremendously fine distinction you make there. If your books really taught you that they did you a disservice.

I "ignored" your other sources because I wanted to focus on the Bible. I also have had and studied many books. Six or seven bookshelves back when I lived in Texas. But over the years I have learned which ones to keep and which ones to leave behind. (Actually, since I have been traveling for the last ten years or so they are almost all on my phone or laptop, but that is beside the point).

Also, I don't care what the Democrats or Republicans say on this issue. Most of them in both parties are reprehensible. I am generally Libertarian and yet some of them are sub-par as well.

 

[asterisktom]

I wouldn't call them our neighbors.

Not a good answer. I guess you imagine Jesus was only speaking of ancient neighbors, and His teaching on this is not relevant for us today. Is that your point?

 

[asterisktom]

Sir "Truth, Justice and Mercy" are found in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. By not being "comparable" I assume you mean the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant, and its only purpose is to help lead the lost to Christ.

The rest of your post is utter nonsense. Mass murders do not worship Christ.

And I plead guilt as charged, I oppose anti-semitism and try to defend truth.

Please read more carefully. "Compatible" not "comparable". A snake is comparable to a dove, but not compatible. And, no, your assumption is way off the mark.

Christianity and post-biblical Judaism are incompatible because the latter group believe that Jesus is in Hell, boiling in excrement. Where is there any compatibility between that and our precious faith?

You don't even bother to understand the real definition of anti-semitism since you seem to not understand about the family of Shem. To defend the truth you have to first understand it.

Don't be phony and call me "sir" and follow up with insults.

 

[Foxmeister]

Not a good answer. I guess you imagine Jesus was only speaking of ancient neighbors, and His teaching on this is not relevant for us today. Is that your point?

You're trying to put words in my mouth. But, it you want to get technical about the term neighbor, I'll play. Since the New Testament was written in Greek, the word is plēsion, which literally means "one who is near," or "one who is close by."

What you're attempting here is to make it appear that I detest Palestinians. That's not true. I think as Christians we should show all the unsaved love by praying they repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

[asterisktom]

You're trying to put words in my mouth. But, it you want to get technical about the term neighbor, I'll play. Since the New Testament was written in Greek, the word is plēsion, which literally means "one who is near," or "one who is close by."

What you're attempting here is to make it appear that I detest Palestinians. That's not true. I think as Christians we should show all the unsaved love by praying they repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

No, you are putting words in my mouth. All I am trying to do is to understand your view. You said that the Palestinians are not your neighbor. My take on that is that it would make you free from Christ's commands from this parable.

You then give a literal, "technical" (wooden) definition of "neighbor". But Christ, as He often does, is speaking metaphorically. Also, our love to others ought to go beyond words. Many of the same Christians who are praying for Palestinians are, at the same time supporting Israel (thus, the IDF) who are preying on the Palestinians. And whether we agree on genocide or not - to me it's a no-brainer - we can certainly see that innocent Palestinians are being killed and their towns eradicated.

To be honest, I regret bringing this subject up here. It just saddens me to see how far downhill Christianity has gone.

 

[xlsdraw]

Not a good answer. I guess you imagine Jesus was only speaking of ancient neighbors, and His teaching on this is not relevant for us today. Is that your point?

The very parable of the Good Samaritan, identifies that only the one with compassion, which did Good, is neighbor.

The physical proximity of these people that call themselves "Palestinian", does not make them neighbor. Their doctrine is the opposite of the Good Samaritan.

 

[Foxmeister]

No, you are putting words in my mouth. All I am trying to do is to understand your view. You said that the Palestinians are not your neighbor. My take on that is that it would make you free from Christ's commands from this parable.

You then give a literal, "technical" (wooden) definition of "neighbor". But Christ, as He often does, is speaking metaphorically. Also, our love to others ought to go beyond words. Many of the same Christians who are praying for Palestinians are, at the same time supporting Israel (thus, the IDF) who are preying on the Palestinians. And whether we agree on genocide or not - to me it's a no-brainer - we can certainly see that innocent Palestinians are being killed and their towns eradicated.

To be honest, I regret bringing this subject up here. It just saddens me to see how far downhill Christianity has gone.

I suggest you go back to my previous post and read my last sentence again.

 

[JonC]

It had to do with John's calling BBC a neutral source.

Ah... I agree. The BBC is far from a neutral source. In fact, I do not believe there is a neutral source.

The mainstream media twists facts to suit and create false narratives (they spin the truth).

Most of you guys here are pretty much invested in this false narrative.

I agree. Most here are. Most here are invested in the GOP "conservative" narrative.

But to be fair, while you are not invested in this false narrative you are invested in a false narrative. You demonstrated this with your investment in the false narrative that the deaths in Gaza was genocide (or an attempted genocide).

I do not think there is any profit in arguing which false narrative should be believed.

My point here was not that Israel was correct in the extent of its actions towards Gaza. Initially it was a defense (Israel trying to prevent the Palestinians in Gaza from killing Israelian citizens and return the civilians they had kidnapped). But at some point defense becomes offense.

My point was is it is a false narrative to call Israel's actions against Gaza "genocide". Palestinians are also Israeli citizens. Palestinians also serve in the Israeli military. Palestinians in Israel also fought to defend their country against Palestinians in Gaza.

It may be easier for me to be honest about the situation because I am not invested in either false narrative.

 

[Van]

Please read more carefully. "Compatible" not "comparable". A snake is comparable to a dove, but not compatible. And, no, your assumption is way off the mark.

Christianity and post-biblical Judaism are incompatible because the latter group believe that Jesus is in Hell, boiling in excrement. Where is there any compatibility between that and our precious faith?

You don't even bother to understand the real definition of anti-semitism since you seem to not understand about the family of Shem. To defend the truth you have to first understand it.

Don't be phony and call me "sir" and follow up with insults.

Sir, we have nothing more to discuss. Christ died as a ransom for all, Jews and Gentiles. To claim otherwise, that Jews are hopelessly addicted to false doctrine is as anti-semitic as it gets.

Good-bye

 

[Foxmeister]

To claim otherwise, that Jews are hopelessly addicted to false doctrine is as anti-semitic as it gets.

Good-bye

The fact is, the Jews refuse to believe Jesus is the Messiah. They continue to believe the Messiah will be a man who is a mighty warrior who will come and defeat Israel's enemies. Jesus will come back a second time and when he does it will be to destroy Satan. They believe they are saved. Are they? What does the Bible say about it? Is this message antisemetic?

 

[Conan]

Palestine was never a sovereign nation, but just a geographical region occupied by the Philistines on the coast where the Gaza strip is now. That region also went further inland where Israelites and Canaanites lived in the hills and northern area. The name Palestine is what the Greeks called the area. Nobody was called a Palestinian until the late 19th century.

Old British maps from WW1 call the Land Palestine. I can google them easy but can't post them here

 

[JonC]

Old British maps from WW1 call the Land Palestine. I can google them easy but can't post them here

The land was (and the people received Israelis recieved a British passport with "Palestinian" on the front).

Nobody views the CSRA (Central Savanah River Area, imcluding areas from SC and GA, running from Augusta to Savannah) it would be a a nation. It is a geographic area.

The Palestinian people (the Arabs that live in the area, are Arabs. Palestine has never been a nation (except when it was a part of Israel).

 

[Conan]

The land was (and the people received Israelis recieved a British passport with "Palestinian" on the front).

Nobody views the CSRA (Central Savanah River Area, imcluding areas from SC and GA, running from Augusta to Savannah) it would be a a nation. It is a geographic area.

The Palestinian people (the Arabs that live in the area, are Arabs. Palestine has never been a nation (except when it was a part of Israel).

And Israel was not a Nation after AD125 when the Romans destroyed it. The land was ruled by Muslim Rulers Christians briefly during the Crusades, by the Ottoman Turks and then the British afterwards. Palestinian Muslims, Christians and Jews all got along as neighbors until Jews from Europe, who were never a part of Israel came and took Arabs from their ancestral homes at rifle point. Even to this very day, Palestinian Jews protest the treatment of their Muslim Brothers by the European Israelis.

 

[Van]

The fact is, the Jews refuse to believe Jesus is the Messiah. They continue to believe the Messiah will be a man who is a mighty warrior who will come and defeat Israel's enemies. Jesus will come back a second time and when he does it will be to destroy Satan. They believe they are saved. Are they? What does the Bible say about it? Is this message antisemetic?

No one suggest that the "Jewish faith" is not false. But Christ died for each and every one of them. Just as He did for those who believe in Islam, or Hinduism or the false doctrines accepted by the lost of every flavor.

We, Christians, believe the Old Covenant has value, provided it is interpreted through the lens of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thus it is compatible with Christianity.

Last point, No, Christ's message, the kingdom of God is at hand, is not anti-semitic, but it does say the traditions of men make the word of God to no effect.

We can say "The Lord is my shepherd..."

 

[JonC]

And Israel was not a Nation after AD125 when the Romans destroyed it. The land was ruled by Muslim Rulers Christians briefly during the Crusades, by the Ottoman Turks and then the British afterwards. Palestinian Muslims, Christians and Jews all got along as neighbors until Jews from Europe, who were never a part of Israel came and took Arabs from their ancestral homes at rifle point. Even to this very day, Palestinian Jews protest the treatment of their Muslim Brothers by the European Israelis.

Your history is wrong.
Israel was a nation:
From the 12th Century BC to 586 BC
From 140 BC to 37 BC
From 1948 to the present.

Israeli Palestinian Arabs fought against Palestinians in Gaza.

But why cares? The point is that Israel IS a sovereign nation and Palestine HAS NEVER BEEN a sovereign nation.

Nobody (EVEN ISRAEL) is opposed to the Palestinians creating a nation, even in Gaza. Israel even suggested this, and tried several times to help Palestine become a nation.

The problem is Palestinians outside of Israeli Atabs (Israeli Palestinians) do not want to be a nation alongside Israel. They advocate genocide and destroying the nation of Israel.

EVERY TIME Israel has defended itself, then called for peace, suggesting a two nation solution, the Palestinian Arabs and Arabs who are not Israeli citizens refuse and call for the destruction of Israel. Everytime it happens this way.

Israel defeated Gaza, parts of Egypt, Jordan and Seria (and Iraq and Lebanon support) when those nations attacked Israel.

Did Israel retain the land they conquered?

No. They gave it back for a permanent peace between their neighboring peoples.

In fact, the anti-Israel Palestinians who left Israel and fought to destroy Israel were encouraged to do so by the Arab nations. They were to return after Israel had been defeated. But Israel won. The Palestinians who remained in Israel were not penalized. They remained Israeli citizens. Those who left and joined the attack on Israel were not allowed back.



The Jerusalem Temple is Israel's most holy site. Did they keep it? No. They gave it to the Muslims for peace in return.


Israel has more claim to the entirety of Judea than does the Palestinians. Israel was the first nation to hold that land. Israel existed in that area as a nation 3 times in history. Israel is currently the sovereign nation of that land. The Palestinians were never a nation in the land.


I have to side with Israel on this one. Just because a people wants to destroy a nation and take their land does not give them that right. The best solution is Palestine becoming a nation AND Israel remaining a nation. The problem is only Israel is interested in peace.