John 3:16 interpetative translation

[Kai]

That's not what the passage says

All men (all anthropos) are necessarily classified as either Jewish or Gentile (non-Jewish). What the passage doesn't say is that God desires only the salvation of some men out of each class.

Some have suggested that God desires all to be saved as part of His revealed will but only permits some to be saved as part of His secret will. Others have suggested that God desires all to be saved, but “all” should be limited to classes of people. I personally find neither explanation to be all that convincing.

 

[Kai]

Scripture is quite clear, those believing on Him already have eternal life

Eternal life does not precede belief.

Ephesians 2:3-5
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

 

[Ascetic X]

All men (all anthropos) are necessarily classified as either Jewish or Gentile (non-Jewish). What the passage doesn't say is that God desires only the salvation of some men out of each class.

Some have suggested that God desires all to be saved as part of His revealed will but only permits some to be saved as part of His secret will. Others have suggested that God desires all to be saved, but “all” should be limited to classes of people. I personally find neither explanation to be all that convincing.

Some say that if God wills for all to be saved, but lots of people reject salvation, God is being limited and thwarted by humans.

But this silly idea is debunked by many verses where God pleads with Israel to return to Him.

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!



I Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Kai]

Eternal life does not precede belief.

Paul the apostle did not have eternal life prior to his conversion.

Acts 22:4-5
And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

1 John 3:14-15
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[kyredneck]

Eternal life does not precede belief.

For Him that declares the end from the beginning it does.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us

I suppose the implications of ^that^ escapes you, as no doubt these do too:

Romans Chapter 5

6​	For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
7​	For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.
8​	But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9​	Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
10​	For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;

 

[kyredneck]

Paul the apostle did not have eternal life prior to his conversion.

<sigh> ...never mind the implications of this:

Galatians Chapter 1

15​	But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16​	to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

...or, the implications of this:

Galatians Chapter 1

15​	But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16​	to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

...or the implications of this:

John Chapter 16

2​	They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.

...or the implications of this:

...Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? ...Who art thou, Lord?..."

...or the implications of this:

John Chapter 10

3​	To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

For Him that declares the end from the beginning Saul/Paul had eternal life before his conversion, the conversion that he had no choice in.

 

[Kai]

For Him that declares the end from the beginning it does.

Like many others, you're taking the phrase "declaring the end from the beginning" and equating that to deterministic fatalism when it's unnecessary to impose that view on Scripture.

I suppose the implications of ^that^ escapes you, as no doubt these do too:

Not in the slightest. We're given a clear picture of who we are at the start, who we become at the end, and exactly how we make that journey from one point to the other. There's no need to overcomplicate things beyond that.

 

[kyredneck]

Like many others, you're taking the phrase "declaring the end from the beginning" and equating that to deterministic fatalism when it's unnecessary to impose that view on Scripture.

Like many others, you are the typical dime-a-dozen, humanistic, 'big man little god', raving anti-Cal.

There, you've jumped to conclusions about me, I've done the same to you.

FTR, to set the matter straight, I do not hold to the Calvinistic 'predestination of all things'. I am not a Calvinist, what I've read of Calvin probably wouldn't amount to two pages. I hold to 'Overruling Providence' (to them that love God all things work together for good). There's only four times found in scripture of the word translated as 'predestination' and all four pertain to God choosing a people for His own possession. and not to everyday events.