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The Lottery??
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I remember reading some advice from Paul to the effect that all things were permitted to him, but not all things were good for him just because they were permitted. I know of no OT prohibition on smashing your thumb with a hammer, but that should not be taken as a recommendation to mortification of the flesh by hammer.
That is how I view things like the Lottery … foolish but not forbidden. As a rule of thumb, “get rich quick and easy” is not how God typically does things and the lottery is not about faith in God to “supply all your needs”.
That is how I view things like the Lottery … foolish but not forbidden. As a rule of thumb, “get rich quick and easy” is not how God typically does things and the lottery is not about faith in God to “supply all your needs”.
Back in the day, in the movies of the thirties and forties, the thugs ran the "numbers" racket. Now our godless governments run or rake in money from the racket. Here is the deal, the suckers buy the numbers, the thugs take their generous cut, then the rest is paid out. Over time a few will profit but the many will have their money diverted from God's stewardship.
That is why the lottery is known as a "fools tax" because only those need guidance from their fellow believers, are pulled into this confidence game.
That is why the lottery is known as a "fools tax" because only those need guidance from their fellow believers, are pulled into this confidence game.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I personally think the lottery is as @Van said is a fool's game.
But having said that we could say the same about investing in the stock market or bitcoins etc.
The people that place a bet on the outcome of a sports game or a stock going up or winning the lottery are all taking a gamble just at varying levels.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
If someone made $100,000 selling alcohol in his bar, would your church accept a $10,000 gift from that person?
Alcohol is legal, but it tends to result in sin, bad health, addiction, family problems, and personal destruction.
The lottery is a covert tax on the poor. Rich people are not foolish enough to buy lottery tickets.
Gambling is an attempt to get something for nothing. It is not being a good steward of the money God gave you.
Alcohol is legal, but it tends to result in sin, bad health, addiction, family problems, and personal destruction.
The lottery is a covert tax on the poor. Rich people are not foolish enough to buy lottery tickets.
Gambling is an attempt to get something for nothing. It is not being a good steward of the money God gave you.
I see I missed one of the OP questions, would you take an offering from "the lottery."
Yes, when something is blessed or consecrated to God's ministry, it is no longer "unclean." But I would certainly never encourage lottery "playing" as it is a con game. We are to protect the innocent.
Another question raised in a follow on post, was can investing in any "unsure" thing be considered the same thing, i.e. gambling? My answer is No.
Since the future is unknown, when we invest our time, gifts, and material wealth, we may not realize "worldly profit." But investing wisely, like the good steward is better than putting our resources in a hole in the ground. I bought some "church growth" bonds, which I was able to "cash in" for a nifty worldly profit. BTW, our church went from about 100 weekly attendance to over 1000 weekly attendance in about 5 years. So my "profit" in worldly treasure counts for nothing, but I may welcomed home somewhat abundantly.
Yes, when something is blessed or consecrated to God's ministry, it is no longer "unclean." But I would certainly never encourage lottery "playing" as it is a con game. We are to protect the innocent.
Another question raised in a follow on post, was can investing in any "unsure" thing be considered the same thing, i.e. gambling? My answer is No.
Since the future is unknown, when we invest our time, gifts, and material wealth, we may not realize "worldly profit." But investing wisely, like the good steward is better than putting our resources in a hole in the ground. I bought some "church growth" bonds, which I was able to "cash in" for a nifty worldly profit. BTW, our church went from about 100 weekly attendance to over 1000 weekly attendance in about 5 years. So my "profit" in worldly treasure counts for nothing, but I may welcomed home somewhat abundantly.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Sir, I like to think I was trusting in God.
Did you miss where I said the nifty profit meant nothing?
That is sort of like charging the signers of the Declaration of Independence with being greedy little profiteers.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Sir, I like to think I was trusting in God.
Did you miss where I said the nifty profit meant nothing?
That is sort of like charging the signers of the Declaration of Independence with being greedy little profiteers.
No I did not miss that Van. What I am pointing out is that while you choose to use the "church growth" bonds others will use the lottery or stocks but in all those cases they are hoping for a good return.
I would say you were investing wisely.
I personally think state lotteries are wrong-headed, though I don't go around criticizing participants.
Maine initiated a "cash" lottery in 1974 thru citizen referendum. I voted against.
The state later enacted (by referendum) several offshoots, obviously to raise more money. One of those was "Outdoor heritage", raising funds to conserve key wildlands, most of the funds going to the agency (Parks and Lands) where I worked 30+ years as a forester. I voted against.
I do participate in the drawing for any-deer permits, for 2 reasons (beyond a better chance for deer meat in the freezer). First, it seems the best/fairest way to allot a limited resource. Second, those picked get an opportunity, not a sure thing.
For about 20 years I entered the moose lottery, paying my $5 like all participants for my one-in-50 chance (now closer to 30:1). Then the state changed the process by offering one chance for $5, 3 for $10, 6 for $20. That smelled a bit too close to the cash lotteries, so I dropped out.
The comment above that calls the lottery a poor tax is borne out by surveys that show lottery spending runs inverse to personal income.
Kai
Active Member
This is just my opinion, but I think the lottery represents one of the most blatant expressions of greed out there.
Would we excuse someone for robbing a bank simply because they donated part of the proceeds to a church? Of course not. Some might argue, "Well, that's illegal, so it's different." But consider this: prostitution is lawful in certain countries, yet that doesn't make it acceptable for Christians to participate in, does it? If a church knowingly accepts lottery winnings from a member, then logically, that church should be comfortable selling lottery tickets right from the pulpit.
The truth is, any congregation that welcomes this kind of money shares the same guilt as the person who bought the tickets in the first place.
Would we excuse someone for robbing a bank simply because they donated part of the proceeds to a church? Of course not. Some might argue, "Well, that's illegal, so it's different." But consider this: prostitution is lawful in certain countries, yet that doesn't make it acceptable for Christians to participate in, does it? If a church knowingly accepts lottery winnings from a member, then logically, that church should be comfortable selling lottery tickets right from the pulpit.
The truth is, any congregation that welcomes this kind of money shares the same guilt as the person who bought the tickets in the first place.
The good return was facilitating, God willing, church growth. To compare that with a small amount spent on accommodating greed seems less than charitable. Many a believer invests in a home, or a college education for a child. That seems to me to be not the same as repeatably making sucker bets.
I have seen churches that sell lottery tickets for certain charities, ect
In addition, all the answers have been about State/Commonwealth sponsored lottery.
Locally, we have the Oneida Indian Nation - which has the Turning Stone Casino.
A good portion of that business is for the gambling - though they have several other business located there.
So is there is difference between the govt and a private business gambling activity?
If someone gave you a lottery ticket (say a scratch off) would you play it to see if you win?
One other things- I had asked a fellow pastor about having lunch at one of the Turning Stone restaurants.
He refused because it is located in the the same bldg as the gambling.
Hmmm, I guess you should not shop at a grocery store if they sell booze.
BTW, some great discussions on this so far.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
It is hard, where I live, to find a grocery store that does not sell liquor.
Dining at a restaurant associated with a gambling casino seems like endorsing the casino. I was recently invited to join a friend at a restaurant attached to a local casino. I declined.
How about a restaurant that is also a tavern?
Avoid all appearance of evil.
Gee, I guess we should not enter places where sinful things happen. We should only eat at home or our church. No meeting the dregs at the ball game where beer is consumed in large qualities. Lets go back to building monasteries. See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. Great outreach.
Perhaps we should go back to being "in" the world, human society, but not "of" the world, human society? But of course I am not saying we should ever meet with tax collectors!
Perhaps we should go back to being "in" the world, human society, but not "of" the world, human society? But of course I am not saying we should ever meet with tax collectors!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Gee, I guess we should not enter places where sinful things happen. We should only eat at home or our church. No meeting the dregs at the ball game where beer is consumed in large qualities. Lets go back to building monasteries. See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. Great outreach.
Perhaps we should go back to being "in" the world, human society, but not "of" the world, human society? But of course I am not saying we should ever meet with tax collectors!
@Van if we do not enter any place where sinful things happen then we will all be standing outdoors.
Foxmeister
Active Member
In Michigan voters went to the polls to vote on the enactment of a state lottery. The legislature promoted the lottery as a means to add funding for public schools. What actually happened after its passage was divert tax revenue that had been going to public schools to other programs. The voters were deceived as the legislature marketed the revenue from ticket sales would be additional to the tax revenue going to public schools. Had it been clear that it would replace tax dollars, the lottery would most likely have been defeated by the voters,. This serves as an example why politicians can't be trusted.