Where Was Baptism? The Missing Sacrament

[Anthony Pritchard]

Acts 22:16
‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.’

How does this verse say a person gets "baptized?" By being immersed in water? Nope. By "calling on His name!" Thus the meaning is Get up and be spiritually baptized into Christ, and wash away your sins, with the washing of regeneration. When and if God credits your faith as righteousness, you have "called upon His name!"

Van, once again you are not answering the question I asked.

I did not ask whether the Old Testament saints were ultimately perfected through Christ. Nor did I deny that they were.

I asked where Scripture actually describes Abraham, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Elijah, or any other Old Testament saint receiving a postmortem spiritual baptism into Christ.

Hebrews 11:39-40 and Hebrews 12:23 say they were made perfect. They do not describe a postmortem spiritual baptism.

Likewise, Acts 22:16 cannot simply be assumed to refer to spiritual baptism because that is the very point under dispute.

My question remains unchanged: Where does Scripture actually describe the event you are asserting took place?

 

[Van]

Van, once again you are not answering the question I asked.

I did not ask whether the Old Testament saints were ultimately perfected through Christ. Nor did I deny that they were.

I asked where Scripture actually describes Abraham, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Elijah, or any other Old Testament saint receiving a postmortem spiritual baptism into Christ.

Hebrews 11:39-40 and Hebrews 12:23 say they were made perfect. They do not describe a postmortem spiritual baptism.

Likewise, Acts 22:16 cannot simply be assumed to refer to spiritual baptism because that is the very point under dispute.

My question remains unchanged: Where does Scripture actually describe the event you are asserting took place?

Thanks for the clarity, the OT saints were made perfect by their spiritual baptism into Christ. They were made perfect by the washing of regeneration.

Let me see if you will answer this: How does an individual become "in Him, in the Beloved, in Christ?" Of course my answer is by being called into His kingdom, baptized into His kingdom, sanctified into His kingdom, believed into His kingdom. We are in Christ by God's doing. And only in Christ are we made alive, undergoing the washing of regeneration.

Colossians 2:10 NASB
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over every ruler and authority;

So the assertion is not an assumption, but a logical necessity.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Thanks for the clarity, the OT saints were made perfect by their spiritual baptism into Christ. They were made perfect by the washing of regeneration.

Let me see if you will answer this: How does an individual become "in Him, in the Beloved, in Christ?" Of course my answer is by being called into His kingdom, baptized into His kingdom, sanctified into His kingdom, believed into His kingdom. We are in Christ by God's doing. And only in Christ are we made alive, undergoing the washing of regeneration.

Colossians 2:10 NASB
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over every ruler and authority;

So the assertion is not an assumption, but a logical necessity.

Thank you, but this still does not answer the question.

I did not ask for a theological inference. I asked for a scriptural description of the event you claim occurred.

You continue to assert that Old Testament saints were spiritually baptized into Christ after death, but you have not provided a single passage that describes Abraham, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Elijah, or any other Old Testament saint receiving such a baptism. You have provided exactly nothing to establish that claim, nor can you because it is not in the Bible at all.

Hebrews 11:39-40 says they were made perfect. Hebrews 12:23 calls them the spirits of just men made perfect. Neither passage describes a postmortem baptism.

Saying that such a baptism is a "logical necessity" is simply acknowledging that the doctrine is being inferred rather than taught. My question remains unchanged: Where does Scripture actually describe the event you are asserting took place?

As to your question, Romans 6:3 expressly speaks of being baptized into Christ. The difference is that Romans 6 actually mentions baptism into Christ.

My question remains: where does Scripture describe Abraham, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Elijah, or any other Old Testament saint receiving the postmortem spiritual baptism you are asserting?

You continue to argue that such an event must have occurred, but you have yet to cite a passage that actually describes it occurring. In fact, you have not cited such a passage because there is not one to be found anywhere in Scripture.

Hebrews 11:39-40 says they were made perfect. Hebrews 12:23 calls them the spirits of just men made perfect. Neither text mentions a postmortem baptism into Christ.

At this point, your position rests not on a text that describes the event, but on an inference that you believe is necessary. Yet an inference, however strongly held, is not the same as a biblical statement. Scripture says they were made perfect. Scripture does not say they were postmortemly baptized into Christ.

So the question remains unchanged: where does Scripture actually describe the event you are asserting took place?

 

[percho]

I have a question about being, "made perfect".

Let's say one [Bob] has been indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Is that one [Bob] made perfect or is that one [Bob] just in Christ awaiting perfection?

Is the having been saved, that is put in Christ, that is having the first-fruit of the Spirt, the hope of one's [Bob's] perfection?

For reference Romans 8:11-25 esp V's 11,23,24,25

1 Thes 4:18 1 Cor 15:50,51 When does one [Bob} the total of Bob, become totally perfect?



These all died according to faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off and welcoming [them], and confessing that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Heb 11:13 English Majority Text 2009

Are all of those considered to be in the bosom of the Abraham? They are dead in the faith of the Abraham. That faith being that in his seed [singular] all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

IMHO the dead in Christ are dead in the faith of the seed of the Abraham.

Awaiting, the hope, the redemption of the body.

I will let you all relate the above to baptism for I do not know if I can yet I believe it dose.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

I have a question about being, "made perfect".

My understanding is this:

I would distinguish between being made perfect spiritually and the final redemption of the body.

Believers possess eternal life now and are new creatures in Christ. Yet Romans 8 says we still groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, namely the redemption of our body.

The new man sins not:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

Thus, when Hebrews speaks of the spirits of just men made perfect, I have no difficulty affirming that. Spiritual perfection and bodily redemption are not the same thing.

The redeemed still await the resurrection and glorification of the body:

"...even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." (Romans 8:23)

Therefore, I do not equate being "made perfect" in Hebrews with the claim that Old Testament saints underwent a postmortem spiritual baptism into Christ. Hebrews says they were made perfect. It does not describe such a baptism taking place.

Scripture repeatedly points to faith as the means by which they were counted righteous before God.