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"God Saves Sinners Completely and Fully"

KenH

Well-Known Member
He did not preach “God will grant you repentance and faith”.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

(emphasis mine)
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

(emphasis mine)

It is given and granted to some, due to their chosen obedience.

God commands all men everywhere to repent.


Acts 17:30,31

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Commands must be able to be obeyed by free will, otherwise the commands are pointless, if obedience is impossible.


Luke 13:3 (ESV): "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Acts 2:38 (ESV): "And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

Acts 3:19 (ESV): "Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out."

Matthew 4:17 (ESV): "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"

Mark 6:12 So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent.



Free choice is shown in the “Will humble…will seek…will turn”, otherwise, language has no meaning.

2 Chronicles 7:14 Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and will pray and will seek my face and will turn from their evil ways, then I myself shall hear from the heavens and will forgive their sins and heal their land.
 
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KenH

Well-Known Member
God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Yes, He does. And who is it that will repent and believe the gospel? They are God's elect, those He chose before the foundation of the world and gave to Christ to be their Surety, as Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for their salvation, and unto whom faith and repentance are given by God to His elect after they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit under the proclamation of the gospel of the finished work of Christ on their behalf.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Yes, He does. And who is it that will repent and believe the gospel? They are God's elect, those He chose before the foundation of the world and gave to Christ to be their Surety, as Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for their salvation, and unto whom faith and repentance are given by God to His elect after they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit under the proclamation of the gospel of the finished work of Christ on their behalf.
Once again, you fail to address the many scriptures that speak of will and choosing.

You just claim that people are made to obey, rather than deciding to obey.

Yet you exercise free will choice to respond to posts.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Ultimately, there are only two religions in the world - salvation by free will and salvation by free grace. And the Bible teaches that salvation by free will is impossible and that salvation is by free grace.

"Salvation is of the LORD." - Jonah 2:9
Salvation that recognizes the existence of the effect of the will is not works salvation. Still salvation by grace through faith.
You are obviously confused about the difference between works and will. You are not on equal planes.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Yes, He does. And who is it that will repent and believe the gospel? They are God's elect, those He chose before the foundation of the world and gave to Christ to be their Surety, as Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for their salvation, and unto whom faith and repentance are given by God to His elect after they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit under the proclamation of the gospel of the finished work of Christ on their behalf.
Your construct is an oxymoron
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Salvation that recognizes the existence of the effect of the will is not works salvation. Still salvation by grace through faith.

To glory in man's "free will", his decision, his baptism, or whatever man does as making the difference between Heaven and Hell is to proclaim a false gospel, as it is based on man and not Christ alone.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
So God ordains all the horrible acts of humanity?

Do you realize how awful your borrowed opinion sounds?

"Supralapsarianism is the doctrine that the events of history were brought about by God for no other reason other than these events are a fulfillment of His decree to glorify Himself and that these events are brought about as a means to an end. This is also known as Absolute Predestination. In other words, God decreed all the events of the world including the fall of men, redemption, damnation, every drop of rain, every word uttered by men, and every grunt made by beast all before the foundation of the world in order to bring about His desired result. I believe that God predestined His elect to fall in Adam so that they would be saved in Christ.

Most calvinists today are infralapsarians and they believe that God decreed to send Christ and save His people because of the fall. In the infralapsarian scheme God chooses to save individuals out of the mass of fallen humanity and then passes over the rest of humanity in reprobation. Infralapsarians usually claim to be against equal ultimacy, but it is my opinion that they cannot logically escape the conclusion that “passing over” is the same as “not electing” which is really election to the negative. It is my opinion that infralapsarianism is really a scheme of selection and not the biblical doctrine of election. Infralapsarians are often found to be opposed to supralapsarianism because they usually believe that supralapsarianism makes God the “author of sin.” What I find odd about that phrase is that it is nowhere to be found in Scripture, yet it’s a phrase that is often guarded like a sacred cow not to be touched. For the record, I do not believe evil and sin originate in the character of God but that He predestined these events for His purposes. It is impossible for God to sin, so I really don’t see what the big deal is. If you want a good definition of sin or evil, just look to God for the definitions as these things are the exact opposite of His Holy Nature. While infralapsarians often accuse supralapsarians with charging God as the “author of sin,” supralapsarians can equally charge infralapsarians with believing that God allowed sin to happen and did nothing to stop it! If I had to pick which one was worse based solely on logic, I’d have to conclude the infralapsarian scheme is because it depicts God with not getting what He wanted and without power to stop something He did not predestine. Infralapsarians also have difficulty explaining where sin came from and sometimes refer to a strange doctrine known as eternal law that exists outside of God which God Himself is bound to obey. I don’t know where any scriptural foundation for this strange belief is found, so you’ll have to ask an infralapsarian that believes in these things to explain this for you if you’re interested. It is my belief that God is the eternal law if there is such a thing."

- excerpt from the article by Brandan Kraft linked here: Confession of a Hyper-Calvinist — Brandan Kraft
 
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Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Supralapsarianism is the doctrine that the events of history were brought about by God for no other reason other than these events are a fulfillment of His decree to glorify Himself and that these events are brought about as a means to an end. This is also known as Absolute Predestination. In other words, God decreed all the events of the world including the fall of men, redemption, damnation, every drop of rain, every word uttered by men, and every grunt made by beast all before the foundation of the world in order to bring about His desired result. I believe that God predestined His elect to fall in Adam so that they would be saved in Christ.
There is no way God decreed, ordained, or willed every gruesome, perverted, immoral, sadistic atrocity committed by demons and humans.

Such a bizarre belief contradicts the many scriptures that say God is good, holy, and righteous, and it contradicts how Jesus lived and what He taught.

To predestine something as horrible as the fall of humanity, and its wretched consequences, just to redeem mankind later, is to me a miserable plan.

Infralapsarians are often found to be opposed to supralapsarianism because they usually believe that supralapsarianism makes God the “author of sin.” What I find odd about that phrase is that it is nowhere to be found in Scripture, yet it’s a phrase that is often guarded like a sacred cow not to be touched.

God is not the author of confusion. To ordain evil that good may come is metaphysical confusion. We are not to sin that grace may abound, so God could not will sin to occur that grace may abound.


Romans 6:1,2

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


For the record, I do not believe evil and sin originate in the character of God but that He predestined these events for His purposes. It is impossible for God to sin, so I really don’t see what the big deal is. If you want a good definition of sin or evil, just look to God for the definitions as these things are the exact opposite of His Holy Nature. While infralapsarians often accuse supralapsarians with charging God as the “author of sin,” supralapsarians can equally charge infralapsarians with believing that God allowed sin to happen and did nothing to stop it!

God is the author of sin = God predestines sin to occur = God wills evil.

God allows many things to happen. He allows men to sin in atrocious ways, not because He cannot stop it, but here is where free will is absolutely mandatory. God refuses to possess and control people as if they were puppets, robots, or zombies to manipulate.
 
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