Time Does Not Exist

[kv100]

I want to examine something we often take for granted: the existence of time itself.

My argument begins with a fundamental characteristic of God’s creation: God does not create without purpose. Scripture repeatedly presents His creation as intentional, purposeful, and according to His will.

Isaiah 45:18 tells us that God formed the earth to be inhabited. Colossians 1:16 says that all things were created through Christ and for Him. Revelation 4:11 declares that all things exist because of God’s will.

Consider also Proverbs 16:4:

> “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (KJV)

The consistent biblical picture is that God’s works are not arbitrary or without purpose. He creates with intention. We therefore have reason to examine the purpose of anything we propose that He created.

This brings me to time.

Time serves no purpose that God has not already provided for.

God established the heavenly lights to mark days, years, and seasons (Genesis 1:14). Through these, the duration and cycles of created existence can be measured. We can determine how long something exists, distinguish one event from another, and establish the sequence in which events occur. These functions are already accounted for within creation itself.

An independently existing entity called Time would add nothing to these arrangements. It would not provide another means of measuring duration, establish a sequence that does not already exist, or fulfil a purpose that the created order does not already fulfil. Its supposed existence would therefore serve no additional purpose in creation.

And this is significant because God does not create without purpose. Everything He creates is intentional and serves His will. There is no biblical basis for portraying His creative work as arbitrary or purposeless. Consequently, attributing the creation of an independently existing entity called Time to God introduces something for which no distinct purpose has been established, despite the fact that He already provided everything necessary to measure the duration and cycles of created existence.

There is also a distinction between God’s existence and ours.

Psalm 90:2 declares:

> “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” (KJV)

God is eternal. His existence does not depend on days, years, seasons, or any measurement of duration.

Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 further illustrate that our measurements of duration cannot simply be applied to God’s eternal existence. A thousand years is described as being like a day to Him, and a day like a thousand years.

Furthermore, 1 Timothy 6:16 describes God as the one who has immortality, while 1 John 5:11–12 explains that eternal life is given to us through His Son. God is the source of life; we receive life from Him.

The distinction is between the measurable duration and sequence of created existence and the idea that Time exists independently as something in its own right. The existence of the former does not establish the existence of the latter.

 

[David Lamb]

I want to examine something we often take for granted: the existence of time itself.

My argument begins with a fundamental characteristic of God’s creation: God does not create without purpose. Scripture repeatedly presents His creation as intentional, purposeful, and according to His will.

Isaiah 45:18 tells us that God formed the earth to be inhabited. Colossians 1:16 says that all things were created through Christ and for Him. Revelation 4:11 declares that all things exist because of God’s will.

Consider also Proverbs 16:4:

> “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (KJV)

The consistent biblical picture is that God’s works are not arbitrary or without purpose. He creates with intention. We therefore have reason to examine the purpose of anything we propose that He created.

This brings me to time.

Time serves no purpose that God has not already provided for.

God established the heavenly lights to mark days, years, and seasons (Genesis 1:14). Through these, the duration and cycles of created existence can be measured. We can determine how long something exists, distinguish one event from another, and establish the sequence in which events occur. These functions are already accounted for within creation itself.

An independently existing entity called Time would add nothing to these arrangements. It would not provide another means of measuring duration, establish a sequence that does not already exist, or fulfil a purpose that the created order does not already fulfil. Its supposed existence would therefore serve no additional purpose in creation.

And this is significant because God does not create without purpose. Everything He creates is intentional and serves His will. There is no biblical basis for portraying His creative work as arbitrary or purposeless. Consequently, attributing the creation of an independently existing entity called Time to God introduces something for which no distinct purpose has been established, despite the fact that He already provided everything necessary to measure the duration and cycles of created existence.

There is also a distinction between God’s existence and ours.

Psalm 90:2 declares:

> “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” (KJV)

God is eternal. His existence does not depend on days, years, seasons, or any measurement of duration.

Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 further illustrate that our measurements of duration cannot simply be applied to God’s eternal existence. A thousand years is described as being like a day to Him, and a day like a thousand years.

Furthermore, 1 Timothy 6:16 describes God as the one who has immortality, while 1 John 5:11–12 explains that eternal life is given to us through His Son. God is the source of life; we receive life from Him.

The distinction is between the measurable duration and sequence of created existence and the idea that Time exists independently as something in its own right. The existence of the former does not establish the existence of the latter.

But surely, the times, seasons, etc. that Genesis tells us God created sun, moon and stars for are indications of time. So are the first day, the second say, etc. mentioned in the account of creation. If there were no such thing as time, terms like seasons, first day, evening and morning would be meaningless.

 

[kv100]

But surely, the times, seasons, etc. that Genesis tells us God created sun, moon and stars for are indications of time. So are the first day, the second say, etc. mentioned in the account of creation. If there were no such thing as time, terms like seasons, first day, evening and morning would be meaningless.

I think there is a distinction between time itself existing and time of existence/passage of existence. I'm saying time itself doesn't exist not time of existence/passage of existence.

 

[David Lamb]

I think there is a distinction between time itself existing and time of existence/passage of existence. I'm saying time itself doesn't exist not time of existence/passage of existence.

But that doesn't make sense, at least to me. If time itself doesn't exist, how can time of existence/passage of existence exist?

 

[kv100]

But that doesn't make sense, at least to me. If time itself doesn't exist, how can time of existence/passage of existence exist?

When I say time of existence I'm just using the word time to qualify change in existence over the amount of time we measure it. I think the best way to put it is just to call it passage of existence or change in existence, it's less confusing that way.

 

[David Lamb]

When I say time of existence I'm just using the word time to qualify change in existence over the amount of time we measure it. I think the best way to put it is just to call it passage of existence or change in existence, it's less confusing that way.

But "time" as I see it, is the word we use to describe the way changes of existence (for example, babies becoming children, children becoming adults, adults dying) are sequenced one after the other. There are plenty of references to time in the Bible. I'll just give two examples, one from each Testament:

NKJV Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

 

[kv100]

But "time" as I see it, is the word we use to describe the way changes of existence (for example, babies becoming children, children becoming adults, adults dying) are sequenced one after the other. There are plenty of references to time in the Bible. I'll just give two examples, one from each Testament:

NKJV Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Thats okay you can use the word time to describe change in existence but that doesnt mean time itself exist. Think of it this way if time actually existed, why would it need to change or cause change? wouldnt it just be there and exist given nothing would affect it? wouldnt also God create time that would only be affected by him preventing anything or anyone from affecting or manipulating it?

 

[David Lamb]

Thats okay you can use the word time to describe change in existence but that doesnt mean time itself exist. Think of it this way if time actually existed, why would it need to change or cause change? wouldnt it just be there and exist given nothing would affect it? wouldnt also God create time that would only affected by him preventing anything or anyone from affecting or manipulating it?

I don't think we are going to come to any conclusion or agreement on this. Your clearly define the word "time" differently to me. Thanks for the discussion.