From the foundation of the world?

[percho]

Talk to me.

And they are both of them naked, the man and his wife, and they are not ashamed of themselves. And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made, and he saith unto the woman, 'Is it true that God hath said, Ye do not eat of every tree of the garden?' And the woman saith unto the serpent, 'Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we do eat, and of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God hath said, Ye do not eat of it, nor touch it, lest ye die.' And the serpent saith unto the woman, 'Dying, ye do not die, for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.' Gen 2:25, 3:1-5

As to the rest, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might; put on the whole armour of God, for your being able to stand against the wiles of the devil, because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places; because of this take ye up the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to resist in the day of the evil, and all things having done -- to stand. Eph 6:10-14

And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat; Gen 3:6

so that the law, indeed, is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. That which is good then, to me hath it become death? let it not be! but the sin, that it might appear sin, through the good, working death to me, that the sin might become exceeding sinful through the command, for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by the sin; Rom 7:12-14


Talk to me about, Adam.

What was the wrestling really about? Who was the wrestling really between? Why was the man, of flesh and blood, given a spiritual, good, holy command, a law?

From the foundation of the world/configuration/system? Out of darkness, confusion, and waste; Let their be Light.


1 Cor 15:56 and the sting of the death is the sin, and the power of the sin the law;

 

[Ben1445]

1) Since WWII covers the time WWII ended until the present. But a year from now, the same phrase will cover a year in our future. So it is not ridiculous to say "since the foundation of the world refers to the time period to the end of the age.

2) Luke 11:50-51 demonstrates the phrase is used for a time period, not a point in time.

3) Since is clear, plain and accurate, from provides the opportunity for mischief. Here is a quote posted recently:

All I can say is the elect had their name written in the book before the foundations of time.​

​

But it doesn’t just say since the foundation of the world. It includes that generation in the sentence.
So it may be familiar to you to speak incorrectly, but it is not proper to say since WWII to now.
It is okay to say since WWII, and leave it at that.
But I don’t really care how you speak. It is the attitude that you are a much better translator than the group of 40 translators that I was pointing out.
How fortunate we are to live in a time when a single person credentialed by google can take on 40 highly educated people.

 

[Van]

But it doesn’t just say since the foundation of the world. It includes that generation in the sentence.
So it may be familiar to you to speak incorrectly, but it is not proper to say since WWII to now.
It is okay to say since WWII, and leave it at that.
But I don’t really care how you speak. It is the attitude that you are a much better translator than the group of 40 translators that I was pointing out.
How fortunate we are to live in a time when a single person credentialed by google can take on 40 highly educated people.

Your constant attacks on me, rather than what I say are not useful. Test what I say, and offer scriptural objections.

1) I said using "from" provides the opportunity for mischief, and supported the claim with a quote of mischief.

2) I explained why "from" causes confusion, it can point to origin, rather than separation from a point in time. Since uses the context, a point in time, and provides the meaning of "after" or subsequent.

3) And your claim of mind reading only illustrates your argument is based on fallacy.

4) When does the time period end? In Luke 11:50 we see that the sins of killing the prophets will be applied to those living in that day. But does that terminate the time period of "since the foundation of the world? Nope, today is since the foundation of the world.

5) In Revelation 13:8 we see that names could be being written today into the Lamb's book of life, which will be audited at the end of the age. If the end of the age does not come in the next 10 years, then any names written in that future period will still be "since the foundation of the world."

 

[Ben1445]

Your constant attacks on me, rather than what I say are not useful.

I can’t help that you have a persecution complex.

Test what I say, and offer scriptural objections.

I did. But you attacked me.

1) I said using "from" provides the opportunity for mischief, and supported the claim with a quote of mischief.

I disagreed.

2) I explained why "from" causes confusion, it can point to origin, rather than separation from a point in time. Since uses the context, a point in time, and provides the meaning of "after" or subsequent.

And as I pointed out, it is bad grammar to use since to.
Since says from a certain point til now.

Jesus gave both points of reference, Zecharias and “this generation” that He was alive in.
It doesn’t allow for mistakes to say from this point to this point.

3) And your claim of mind reading only illustrates your argument is based on fallacy.

I didn’t claim mind reading.
Show me where i did. Quote me.

4) When does the time period end? In Luke 11:50 we see that the sins of killing the prophets will be applied to those living in that day. But does that terminate the time period of "since the foundation of the world? Nope, today is since the foundation of the world.

Which is not part of the group of people Jesus was speaking to. Thanks for noticing the point.

5) In Revelation 13:8 we see that names could be being written today into the Lamb's book of life, which will be audited at the end of the age. If the end of the age does not come in the next 10 years, then any names written in that future period will still be "since the foundation of the world."

They will also still be from the foundation of the world.

 

[percho]

1 John 3:8 YLT he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
1 Peter 1:18-20 YLT having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,

From before the foundation of the world, was the devil, the one sinning from the beginning and his works, going to be destroyed by the Son of God being manifest in flesh and blood?

What was the plan before Adam was created? Why was there a plan before the foundation of the world?

 

[Van]

Some seem intent on saying taint so, no matter the widespread support for the view. Apo when used in reference to time means since, or after, or subsequently. Because "from" might point to origin, since is the superior translation choice, and its use is increasing among the modern translations.

 

[Ben1445]

Broad is the way, as they say.
I don’t think majority, especially a majority of today’s world is a good argument for deciding what is best. A good majority of versions have some doctrinal issues.

Don’t follow the crowd. They may be wrong.

Some people seem dead set on accusing people of “taint so” arguing. This is the default response for someone who has nothing left to discuss, won’t understand that nobody has to agree with them, and can’t stop attacking the person who they are arguing against by saying that they only say taint so when in reality, they are the only person who uses that phrase.

I hope the irony isn’t lost from since my post.

 

[Van]

Broad is the way, as they say.
I don’t think majority, especially a majority of today’s world is a good argument for deciding what is best. A good majority of versions have some doctrinal issues.

Don’t follow the crowd. They may be wrong.

Some people seem dead set on accusing people of “taint so” arguing. This is the default response for someone who has nothing left to discuss, won’t understand that nobody has to agree with them, and can’t stop attacking the person who they are arguing against by saying that they only say taint so when in reality, they are the only person who uses that phrase.

I hope the irony isn’t lost from since my post.

Yes, it is true, a widely held, even a majority held, view is not authenticated by the number of adherents. OTOH, to suggest the view is an invention of one person is disingenuous.

Then the material false statements:

1) Van has no addition biblical support for translating "apo" as since when "after a point in time" is the contextual meaning. When a location is in view, i.e. Jesus came from Egypt as a child, "from" must be used, as "since" is obviously not the intended meaning. But when the meaning refers to something happening after a point in time, "since" is the obvious best choice.

2) Van doesn't understand that nobody must agree with him. (Folks another false mind reading claim.)

3) Van attacks people rather than fallacious argumentation. Here Van is charged with the behavior of those that disagree with his understanding of scripture.

Returning to topic:

Some seem intent on saying taint so, no matter the widespread support for the view. Apo when used in reference to time means since, or after, or subsequently. Because "from" might point to origin, since is the superior translation choice, and its use is increasing among the modern translations.

If we consider Hebrews 4:3, and look at many (more than 60) of the English translations, the vast majority translated "apo" as "from" but more than a dozen translate "apo" as "since."