Beer Trucks,Tow Trucks & an Unsaved Brother!

Did Jesus Drink Wine?

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Yes.

The theologians have taught all down the ages

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And I thought Baptists relied on the teachings of the Bible and not the teachings of men. Why should I put more faith in the teachings of these theologians then what the Bible clearly says.

Gregory

It is your stand to take. But please be consistant. If you decide not to tow the truck then also decide not to shop in grocery stores, gas stations, restarants the serve alcohol.

Since you did not deal with this:

If Jesus making alcohol makes Him responsable for somebody who misuses it. Then God making marijuana also makes Him responsable for somebody who misuses it.

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I assume you agree that this:

Off topic but hey I just will never believe my Savior made something that had the potential to cause a person to sin by getting drunk on the wine HE made . How could He be true to the teachings of Scripture that says not to get drunk etc ... and then make wine that would possibly be tempting to some to get drunk.
No way that happens. He made unfermented wine

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Is a faulty argument, useing faulty logic.

Did Jesus Drink Wine?
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Yes.


quote:
The theologians have taught all down the ages
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And I thought Baptists relied on the teachings of the Bible and not the teachings of men. Why should I put more faith in the teachings of these theologians then what the Bible clearly says.
By Dee Jay
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Such Wisdom!

Originally posted by Gregory Perry Sr.:
OK folks.....my original OP wasn't intended to degenerate into a "drink or not drink" thread.I'm simply looking for the scriptural principles or direct statements of scripture that deal with the ethics of towing the beer trucks or doing business with companies that we might have scriptural convictions against........now we are talking about smoking POT...or not.Methinks someone has smoked the rope and run off down the rabbit trail....lol...or sipped one too many PBR's.

Greg Sr.

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I am continuing to pray for you. I know that Jesus loves you and that he will honor your desire to please Him by guiding your walk with Him.

Every time you (tow a beer truck)(don't tow a beer truck) (post for alcohol) (post against alcohol) an angel loses its wings.


Y'all are mean. Look at that poor angel!

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
I'm wondering why you went into business with your brother if he is not a Christian.

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what to righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they will be my people."

"Therefore, come out from them and be separate, says the Lord."
2 Corinthians 6:14-17a

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I can scarcely believe that I am reading such worthless tripe on a Christian message board! If it was unscriptural for this man to go to work for his apparently non-Christian brother, it is unscriptural for us to go to work for secular schools, colleges, and universities; city, state, and national governments; or any privately owned company that is not owned by Christians and operated as a Christian business!!!

</font>[/QUOTE]Craig,
I don't get what you're saying. One of the specific applications of her principle would be don't work for Anheuser-Busch. Yet you call it "tripe".
You say AB is very evil. You would consign fellow Christians to hell for committing "mortal sin" by working for them. (quite a Catholic concept)
Yet it is "tripe" for Helen to agree with you in general about not working for such companies? All she did was elaborate a general principle. You gave the specific Anheuser-Busch example of that principle. You went further than Helen, implying "mortal sin" on the part of Christians working for such a company. Yet you say you completely disagree with the "tripe" she posted? I don't get it.
Perhaps you are displaying a subtle and sophisticated humor that I am taking too literally?

Karen

Yeah, I think he was being sarcastic. Although I agree that Anheuser-Busch is evil--their beer is swill.

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
I can not think of a more diabolical company than the Anheuser-Busch Company.

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Craig, I'm really interested as to what you really mean here .... I mean, I find myself agreeing with you but really have no idea what you are talking about. Can you elaborate? You can email or PM me if its too much off-topic.

Thanks.

Originally posted by IveyLeaguer:
I mean, I find myself agreeing with you but really have no idea what you are talking about.

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This doesn't worry you?

I can think of plenty worse, Planned Parenthood, for example.

Originally posted by IveyLeaguer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
I can not think of a more diabolical company than the Anheuser-Busch Company.

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Craig, I'm really interested as to what you really mean here .... I mean, I find myself agreeing with you but really have no idea what you are talking about. Can you elaborate? You can email or PM me if its too much off-topic.

Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]I was not referring to any single act, but many years of the most horrendous of sins deceptively hidden from the general public through the expenditure of hundreds of millions of dollars to create a totally false image of who they are and the indescribable evil in their minds, hearts, and deeds. The Anheuser-Busch Company is NOT just another brewery!

WOW is all I have to say.

CBTS,

Hey Brother, been a while!

I agree re AB. I am of the opinion that most distributors of beverage alcohol have done a great disservice to the society in which we live. Lives are wrecked, livers are ruined, homes are broken, etc. etc. etc.

Be that as it may,

Shiloh and others,

I cannot turn the water into wine into grape juice, as some have done. NNE has interacted with the parallel I presented as to wine/drunk – oinos/methuw – and John 2:10 with Eph 5:18. Same words in both passages. I wish they were not, and it does bother me, but it is what God’s Word says. I will not deny and I will not redefine it. However, I can water it down a bit. That is what the pitchers of water were there for! To dilute the wine, so as to make it less intoxicating. I guess in this case it may be OK to water down the word “oinos” – with 2-6 parts water, according to ancient writers. But you cannot water it all way back to grape juice! Not and still be faithful to the text...

Ray

Ray, For God to forbid the use of alcohol in the Old Testament and for Christ to condone it's use in the New Testament is sending a conflicting message at the least. The Lord Jesus did not condone the use of alcohol anywhere.

Deut. 14:26

"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice."

There goes the fact God forbids the use of alcohol! Not only did He not forbid it, He encouraged them to buy it...and drink it in front of Him!

In the Old Testament there are two Hebrew words that are used, one is "Yayain." Young's Concordance defines this word as "what is pressed out" grape juice. The other word is the word "Tirosh" defined as "what is possessed," new wine. So we take it that in Bible times grape juice was called wine. They had no way to keep it fresh and so eventually, it would become "Yayain" fermented wine, strong drink. We need to consider a long time authority on this matter, Smith's Bible Dictionary: "The simple wines of antiquity was incomparably less deadly than the stupefying and ardent beverages of our western nations. The wines of antiquity was more like syrups; many of them were not intoxicant; many more intoxicant in a small degree; and all of them, as a rule, taken only when largely diluted with water. They contained, even undiluted, but 4 or 5 percent of alcohol."
The Hebrew word "Yain," wine, is the same root word in the Greek, was not confined to an intoxicating liquor made of fruits by alcoholic fermentation of their expressed juices, but more frequently referred to a thick, non-intoxicating syrup, or jam, produced by boiling. This was done to store the articles of food, exactly what we do even today. We store them in bottles, jars, metal cans, while they put them in skins (bottles).

The Greek word "Oinos, Oinon, Oine," the grape, or vine-plant, is used by many to always mean fermented and intoxicating liquor, which is totally inaccurate, and only could come from pure ignorance or from those who fancied drunkenness to be the highest delight, and intoxication a christian practice; the Mohammedan Arabians were always sober people. Oinos, wine, or drink made from any fruit, grain, such as dates, apples, pears, barley, or lotus seed. If specially indicated as made from grapes it is called Oinos' ampelinos. As in the Hebrew "Yain," the word does not in the Greek always signify fermented intoxicating drink, but grapes as fresh fruit, dried as raisins, or jam, or preserved by boiling for storage, or as a thick syrup for table use for spreading on bread as we do butter, and this was also dissolved in water for a drink or beverage at meals, as described in the Bible by Solomon and others. This mixing of the syrups with water ready for use at meals is referred to in more than one of our Lord's parables. This drink was absolutely non-alcoholic and non-intoxicating. Grape juice was also prepared by heating it, as soon as possible after it had been squeezed in the press, by boiling, so as to prevent fermentation, and yet preserve its thin liquid form as a drink. To insure this, certain resinous gums were dissolved in this juice, or sulphate of lime, which is called gypsum, was put into it.

All of these plans for producing a non-intoxicating wine are still followed in every grape-growing country of Southern Europe and Asia, as of old.

It should be taken in mind that when reading in the Bible concerning "Wine," we are seldom dealing with the strongly intoxicating and loaded liquors, but usually with beverages such as I have already described. These were harmless and sober as our own teas, coffees, and cocoas. Had they not been so, the ancient populations would have been perpetually in a state of drunkenness. These facts should never be forgotten when we read of "wine" there; this was simple fruit syrup, except where especially stated to be of the intoxicating kinds, which latter the prophets always condemn.
By Dr. Bill Kanoy
I don't expect you fellows to believe this....in doing so would wreck your sinful practices.

Originally posted by Shiloh:
I don't expect you fellows to believe this....in doing so would wreck your sinful practices.

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Your humility amazes me.

Shiloh,

There are several other words used for intoxicating beverage in the OT, offhand, shekar is the only one I can recall.

Dr. Bill Kanoy is wrong. The text is clear. The words in John 2:10 and Eph 5:18 are the same, wine and drunk. The language of the OT is also clear. About half of the passages in the OT that deal with wine and strong drink present its use in moderation in a favorable light.

My sinful practices? I have never had a drop of beverage alcohol in my mouth. Not the first sip of beer, wine, etc. Not once.

If you call faithful exposition of the Word of God as it is written and not as I wish it was written, sinful, I am guilty as charged and hope to remain so till He calls me home to glory.

It is amazing how you fellows disregard the KJV but revere the Strongs Concordance! No, my friend Dr. Kanoy isn't wrong.

Why should we take your interpretation over the compilation of study of many scholars?