-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Beer Trucks,Tow Trucks & an Unsaved Brother!
- Thread starter Gregory Perry Sr.
- Start date
Mr. Perry, I'm sorry if I offended you. I think rjprince has an excellent point.
I did quit a job when I was uncomfortable with something that was going on -- something no one else seemed to be uncomfortable with.
I have been mocked and criticized because I do not think it is a sin to have a glass of wine. Those are my convictions. We all know that having enough to get high or drunk is wrong, but there was a mighty argument not so long ago about that one glass occasionally, etc.
Your convictions are your convictions, and to go against what you think is right is sin for you according to the Bible. You have put yourself in a difficult position, especially with family involved.
It is not a position I would have put myself in or recommended to any of my children should they have been faced with a similar decision. But this was your decision and I do truly pray (and I'm not using that as simply a nice phrase) that the Lord will show you what He wants out of you here. In the long run, it is not our opinions which are important, but HIS guidance which is.
I did quit a job when I was uncomfortable with something that was going on -- something no one else seemed to be uncomfortable with.
I have been mocked and criticized because I do not think it is a sin to have a glass of wine. Those are my convictions. We all know that having enough to get high or drunk is wrong, but there was a mighty argument not so long ago about that one glass occasionally, etc.
Your convictions are your convictions, and to go against what you think is right is sin for you according to the Bible. You have put yourself in a difficult position, especially with family involved.
It is not a position I would have put myself in or recommended to any of my children should they have been faced with a similar decision. But this was your decision and I do truly pray (and I'm not using that as simply a nice phrase) that the Lord will show you what He wants out of you here. In the long run, it is not our opinions which are important, but HIS guidance which is.
Towing a beer truck is one thing trying to win their business is another IMHO.
I don't think a unbeliever should be equal partners in business with a unbeliever. Yet just being a employee is okay.
I think the interpretation of that "unequally yoked" passage is concerning marriage but it can be applied to being yoked in business.
Funny thing, down in NC,SC etc... where I'm from I know strong IFB churches that have deacons that work for RJ Reynolds. Personally, I couldn't work for a cigerette co. and have peace. Just like my daddy had to finally sell our tobacco farm because he didn't think it was right to grow tobacco and be a christian.
I think Shiloh makes a great point. I think all you beer drinking baptist and wine sippers ought to refrain from posting on this thread. If your buying booze just for sippin or what have you then you are supporting the booze industry.
I love what I heard Adrian Rogers say in a sermon awhile back on the miracle of turning the water into wine. Doens't really go with the thread all that much but it was good.
He said: "Intoxication is the devil's subsitute
for the christian joy" I like that.
BTW, the fermentation process is a result of the curse of sin. Think about it. It is the breakdown of complex molecules in organic compounds, caused by the influence of a ferment..I.E such as the bacteria that causes milk to curdle.--Websters.
There was no bacteria, no breaking down of molecules , decay etc.. before the curse of sin, the fall of man etc...
So when Jesus came along and made "new wine" good wine , Jesus made unfermented wine. He would not make inferior wine that had been tainted by the fermentation process that only came along after the curse of sin was brought into this world by the sin of Adam and Eve.
Jesus did not make alchoholic wine. He made wine that was untouched by the curse of sin thus untouched by the fermentation process.
Off topic but hey I just will never believe my Savior made something that had the potential to cause a person to sin by getting drunk on the wine HE made. How could He be true to the teachings of Scripture that says not to get drunk etc ... and then make wine that would possibly be tempting to some to get drunk.
No way that happens. He made unfermented wine.
I don't think a unbeliever should be equal partners in business with a unbeliever. Yet just being a employee is okay.
I think the interpretation of that "unequally yoked" passage is concerning marriage but it can be applied to being yoked in business.
Funny thing, down in NC,SC etc... where I'm from I know strong IFB churches that have deacons that work for RJ Reynolds. Personally, I couldn't work for a cigerette co. and have peace. Just like my daddy had to finally sell our tobacco farm because he didn't think it was right to grow tobacco and be a christian.
I think Shiloh makes a great point. I think all you beer drinking baptist and wine sippers ought to refrain from posting on this thread. If your buying booze just for sippin or what have you then you are supporting the booze industry.
I love what I heard Adrian Rogers say in a sermon awhile back on the miracle of turning the water into wine. Doens't really go with the thread all that much but it was good.
He said: "Intoxication is the devil's subsitute
for the christian joy" I like that.
BTW, the fermentation process is a result of the curse of sin. Think about it. It is the breakdown of complex molecules in organic compounds, caused by the influence of a ferment..I.E such as the bacteria that causes milk to curdle.--Websters.
There was no bacteria, no breaking down of molecules , decay etc.. before the curse of sin, the fall of man etc...
So when Jesus came along and made "new wine" good wine , Jesus made unfermented wine. He would not make inferior wine that had been tainted by the fermentation process that only came along after the curse of sin was brought into this world by the sin of Adam and Eve.
Jesus did not make alchoholic wine. He made wine that was untouched by the curse of sin thus untouched by the fermentation process.
Off topic but hey I just will never believe my Savior made something that had the potential to cause a person to sin by getting drunk on the wine HE made. How could He be true to the teachings of Scripture that says not to get drunk etc ... and then make wine that would possibly be tempting to some to get drunk.
No way that happens. He made unfermented wine.
shannonl,
I do not sip or drink wine, beer, scotch, or any other alcoholic beverage. I will be 50 this year and have never had beverage alcohol in my mouth, not one time. That is not the issue. Nor is the issue what you "will never believe" or what I believe. It is not even what Adrian Rodgers, great man of God that he was, says in a sermon, and I am pretty sure I have the tape of that one. This issue is what does the text say, what saith the Scripture. And the Scripture says that Jesus turned the water into wine (oinos), not new wine (gleukos)! And I did not say that the wine Jesus made was capable of producing intoxication, the beloved John did (2:10 w/ Eph 5:18).
Do I like the fact that Jesus turned the water into wine? Not really. In fact it kinda bothers my IFB roots, a lot. Am I going to reinterpret the Bible to make it fit my own ideas of what is right and wrong or am I going to redefine words on the basis of what I am comfortable with -- when the Greek makes no such allowances? NO WAY! AND, FWIW, SHAME ON ANYONE WHO DOES!!!
I do not sip or drink wine, beer, scotch, or any other alcoholic beverage. I will be 50 this year and have never had beverage alcohol in my mouth, not one time. That is not the issue. Nor is the issue what you "will never believe" or what I believe. It is not even what Adrian Rodgers, great man of God that he was, says in a sermon, and I am pretty sure I have the tape of that one. This issue is what does the text say, what saith the Scripture. And the Scripture says that Jesus turned the water into wine (oinos), not new wine (gleukos)! And I did not say that the wine Jesus made was capable of producing intoxication, the beloved John did (2:10 w/ Eph 5:18).
Do I like the fact that Jesus turned the water into wine? Not really. In fact it kinda bothers my IFB roots, a lot. Am I going to reinterpret the Bible to make it fit my own ideas of what is right and wrong or am I going to redefine words on the basis of what I am comfortable with -- when the Greek makes no such allowances? NO WAY! AND, FWIW, SHAME ON ANYONE WHO DOES!!!
guitarpreacher
New Member
If you're convictions require you to only tow the vehicles of born again, right living Christians, you're going to starve to death and your tow truck will rust out.
I'm a little confused..
It is nice that you have standards.. more than nice, God pleasing!
But what would be the difference between you towing a beer truck that has broken down and a car broken down that was owned by, say, a lesbian? or a drunk? or a gossip?
I understand that you may be worried about what others think, but didn't Jesus help sinners..
Be very careful using this type of logic... the line never ends.. it keeps moving toward legalism.
It is nice that you have standards.. more than nice, God pleasing!
But what would be the difference between you towing a beer truck that has broken down and a car broken down that was owned by, say, a lesbian? or a drunk? or a gossip?
I understand that you may be worried about what others think, but didn't Jesus help sinners..
Be very careful using this type of logic... the line never ends.. it keeps moving toward legalism.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I believe that you have radically missed the point here. The Anheuser-Busch Company, the owners of the Budweiser brands, is not just some lesbian, or drunk, or a gossip, or another brewery! They are EVIL beyond words. I can not think of a more diabolical company than the Anheuser-Busch Company.
That way you would not have to deal with logic and reason, you could just go on with your man made traditions.
By that reason you should stay away from viniger, cheese, cottage cheese, yogert, sour cream, etc.
You need to study how fermentation works. It is simply an organisem that feeds on suger with alcohol as a by product. You use several foods and products created or containing bacteria are they sinful.
I never stop being amazed at how people will twist scripture to make it say what they want it to say.
Really. Did not God create every plant on this earth, including marajuana. Is God not being true to his teachings by creating a plant that causes people to become high. Tell me the difference ?
Really. Did not God create every plant on this earth, including marajuana. Is God not being true to his teachings by creating a plant that causes people to become high. Tell me the difference ?
-------------------------------------------------
The difference dear one is that God gave us a command NOT to drink alcohol.
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; John 2:1-10.
Probably the above passage is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented one in the New Testament. The misunderstanding has come from imposing upon the Greek text, and the knowledge of Jewish habits of food and drink, that the word "wine" always means intoxicating liquor. Among the Romans, such an idea was attached to "wine" as a universal conception. On the contrary, the "best wine" was not fermented at all. The word is "Oinos" or fruit of the vine, and this is not intoxicating drink. The drink of the Romans was juice of the grape, which they mixed with water, both hot and cold. Fermented wine was rare in early Roman times; it was only used as an act of worship in the heathen temples; and men under thirty, and women all their lives, were forbidden to use it.
Fresh grape juice was called mustum, and to make it keep without fermentation it was boiled until it became thick, like molasses, and
in that state was named defrutum, that is, made from fruit, and stored away in jars for future use. Aristotle says that by keeping for a time in skins and jars it became as thick as butter, and had to be cut out by spoons. Pliny, the Roman writer, records that when the grape juice was boiled down to one-third of its bulk, to secure the finest flavor, that is, to be made into the "best wine," it was called sapa. Our word "savory" comes from this word. Then it is certain that the "wine" created by Christ at Cana was a non-intoxicating kind, but was the "ordinary drink of the people" in everyday life. Some commentators have said that "all the guests were well drunk" when Jesus performed this miracle, and Jesus decided to make them more so, in order to show people the sacred nature of liquor. Would Jesus ever put the bottle to his neighbor's mouth? Jesus kept the law completely.
By the Late Dr. Bill Kanoy
-------------------------------------------------
The difference dear one is that God gave us a command NOT to drink alcohol.
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; John 2:1-10.
Probably the above passage is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented one in the New Testament. The misunderstanding has come from imposing upon the Greek text, and the knowledge of Jewish habits of food and drink, that the word "wine" always means intoxicating liquor. Among the Romans, such an idea was attached to "wine" as a universal conception. On the contrary, the "best wine" was not fermented at all. The word is "Oinos" or fruit of the vine, and this is not intoxicating drink. The drink of the Romans was juice of the grape, which they mixed with water, both hot and cold. Fermented wine was rare in early Roman times; it was only used as an act of worship in the heathen temples; and men under thirty, and women all their lives, were forbidden to use it.
Fresh grape juice was called mustum, and to make it keep without fermentation it was boiled until it became thick, like molasses, and
in that state was named defrutum, that is, made from fruit, and stored away in jars for future use. Aristotle says that by keeping for a time in skins and jars it became as thick as butter, and had to be cut out by spoons. Pliny, the Roman writer, records that when the grape juice was boiled down to one-third of its bulk, to secure the finest flavor, that is, to be made into the "best wine," it was called sapa. Our word "savory" comes from this word. Then it is certain that the "wine" created by Christ at Cana was a non-intoxicating kind, but was the "ordinary drink of the people" in everyday life. Some commentators have said that "all the guests were well drunk" when Jesus performed this miracle, and Jesus decided to make them more so, in order to show people the sacred nature of liquor. Would Jesus ever put the bottle to his neighbor's mouth? Jesus kept the law completely.
By the Late Dr. Bill Kanoy
Are you saying it is ok to smoke pot.
The point was made that Jesus would not have made something that could have gotten somebody drunk and therefor taken part in their sin.
My response is that God made Marijuana and he obviously is not responsable for the sin of getting high on pot.
HOW is my logic flawed. Deal with the question with out changing it.
If Jesus making alcohol makes Him responsable for somebody who misuses it. Then God making marijuana also makes Him responsable for somebody who misuses it.
Did Jesus Drink Wine?
The theologians have taught all down the ages that our blessed
Lord and Savior did drink intoxicating drink, as His ordinary everyday drink, because they say there was no such thing as unintoxicating wine in His day. But the eyes of some of the most learned of our day appear to be opening wide enough to see that the theologians were wrong.
Dr. Kynaston, Professor of Greek at Durham University, says:
"We cannot prove from the words in the Bible that our Lord did or did not drink intoxicating wine." This is a step in the right direction. The theologians have also taught equally definitely that oinos always meant intoxicating wine; but Sir Richard Jebb, Professor of Greek at Cambridge University said that "oinos is a general term, and might include all kinds of beverages."
Anacreon, who wrote some five hundred years, B.C., Ode
"Only males tread the grapes, Setting free the Oinos (wine)."
Here at this early period, we see that the juice in the grapes was called (wine) oinos. And all sane persons know that the juice in the grapes is not intoxicating. Nothing is clearer to those who have studied this question than the Hebrew word "yain" and the Greek word "oinos" were, as Professor Sir R. Jebbs says of "oinos," general words in those early days, and were used to describe sometimes the fruit on the vines, the juice in the grapes, the juice when it was being pressed out, when it was preserved in an unfermented state and therefore unintoxicating, and when it was fermented and intoxicating.
There is overwhelming proof that there has been in use all down the centuries, in all grape-growing countries, grape-juice fermented and intoxicating, and also an abundance of grape-juice preserved in an unfermented state, and therefore not intoxicating; and both have been called wine.
But the unintoxicating, in addition to being called wine, has been called by various other names, such as glukus, vinum, mustum, sapa, careum, siraeum, hepsema, pekmez, new wine. A great
many more names might be added, but a full description may be seen in Dr. Norman Kerr's book on Wines, Scriptural and Eccleiastical, and also in the Temperance Bible Commentary by Dr. F. R. Lees and Dr. Dawson Burns. These words mainly describe a wine made from grape juice by reducing the juice to a sweet liquid by boiling. It was too thick and too sweet to drink pure. And this is a main reason why the Greeks and Romans added so much water to it before drinking, and also why water was added to it before it was used at the Lord's Supper. Water was also added to the intoxicating wine to reduce its intoxicating power.
There is therefore clearly no justification whatever for the misleading statements of the theologians, that there was no such thing as unintoxicating wine in the days of our Lord. It is equally clear that there is no proof, either in holy scripture or out of it, that our Lord ever drank intoxicating wine.
It is no more true to say that the word "wine" always meant intoxicating wine than it is to say that the word "bread" always meant fermented bread just as the word "bread" sometimes meant fermented bread and sometimes unfermented. So the word "oinos" (wine) sometimes was used to describe the grape-juice when it was fermented and sometimes when it was unfermented. St. Matthew 26:26 reads:
Jesus took bread and blessed it.
Here it is not stated whether the bread was fermented or not, but we know it was unfermented (unleavened), because it was the Passover bread. Haggai 1:11 reads:
I called for a drought...upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil.
It is clear that the new wine in this verse means the growing grapes, for if the wine was in the casks or skin bottles the drought could have no effect upon it. There isn't a trace of evidence to prove that our Savior Jesus Christ ever drank or sanctioned the use of intoxicating drink. Habit-forming wine is alcoholic wine, and
any preacher or layman who drinks "much wine" is drinking alcoholic wine, and this is forbidden in the Word of God.
The Late Dr. Billy Kanoy
The theologians have taught all down the ages that our blessed
Lord and Savior did drink intoxicating drink, as His ordinary everyday drink, because they say there was no such thing as unintoxicating wine in His day. But the eyes of some of the most learned of our day appear to be opening wide enough to see that the theologians were wrong.
Dr. Kynaston, Professor of Greek at Durham University, says:
"We cannot prove from the words in the Bible that our Lord did or did not drink intoxicating wine." This is a step in the right direction. The theologians have also taught equally definitely that oinos always meant intoxicating wine; but Sir Richard Jebb, Professor of Greek at Cambridge University said that "oinos is a general term, and might include all kinds of beverages."
Anacreon, who wrote some five hundred years, B.C., Ode
"Only males tread the grapes, Setting free the Oinos (wine)."
Here at this early period, we see that the juice in the grapes was called (wine) oinos. And all sane persons know that the juice in the grapes is not intoxicating. Nothing is clearer to those who have studied this question than the Hebrew word "yain" and the Greek word "oinos" were, as Professor Sir R. Jebbs says of "oinos," general words in those early days, and were used to describe sometimes the fruit on the vines, the juice in the grapes, the juice when it was being pressed out, when it was preserved in an unfermented state and therefore unintoxicating, and when it was fermented and intoxicating.
There is overwhelming proof that there has been in use all down the centuries, in all grape-growing countries, grape-juice fermented and intoxicating, and also an abundance of grape-juice preserved in an unfermented state, and therefore not intoxicating; and both have been called wine.
But the unintoxicating, in addition to being called wine, has been called by various other names, such as glukus, vinum, mustum, sapa, careum, siraeum, hepsema, pekmez, new wine. A great
many more names might be added, but a full description may be seen in Dr. Norman Kerr's book on Wines, Scriptural and Eccleiastical, and also in the Temperance Bible Commentary by Dr. F. R. Lees and Dr. Dawson Burns. These words mainly describe a wine made from grape juice by reducing the juice to a sweet liquid by boiling. It was too thick and too sweet to drink pure. And this is a main reason why the Greeks and Romans added so much water to it before drinking, and also why water was added to it before it was used at the Lord's Supper. Water was also added to the intoxicating wine to reduce its intoxicating power.
There is therefore clearly no justification whatever for the misleading statements of the theologians, that there was no such thing as unintoxicating wine in the days of our Lord. It is equally clear that there is no proof, either in holy scripture or out of it, that our Lord ever drank intoxicating wine.
It is no more true to say that the word "wine" always meant intoxicating wine than it is to say that the word "bread" always meant fermented bread just as the word "bread" sometimes meant fermented bread and sometimes unfermented. So the word "oinos" (wine) sometimes was used to describe the grape-juice when it was fermented and sometimes when it was unfermented. St. Matthew 26:26 reads:
Jesus took bread and blessed it.
Here it is not stated whether the bread was fermented or not, but we know it was unfermented (unleavened), because it was the Passover bread. Haggai 1:11 reads:
I called for a drought...upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil.
It is clear that the new wine in this verse means the growing grapes, for if the wine was in the casks or skin bottles the drought could have no effect upon it. There isn't a trace of evidence to prove that our Savior Jesus Christ ever drank or sanctioned the use of intoxicating drink. Habit-forming wine is alcoholic wine, and
any preacher or layman who drinks "much wine" is drinking alcoholic wine, and this is forbidden in the Word of God.
The Late Dr. Billy Kanoy
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
OK folks.....my original OP wasn't intended to degenerate into a "drink or not drink" thread.I'm simply looking for the scriptural principles or direct statements of scripture that deal with the ethics of towing the beer trucks or doing business with companies that we might have scriptural convictions against........now we are talking about smoking POT...or not.Methinks someone has smoked the rope and run off down the rabbit trail....lol...or sipped one too many PBR's.
Greg Sr.
Greg Sr.
Would you tow a gun company's truck? Most of their customers' use of their product is harmless, but some people do go out and shoot others. Whose fault is that--the gun company's or the murderer's?
Oh, and I'm afraid you won't find much in Scripture on this, as God's position seems to be, "I made alcohol for you to enjoy, but don't get drunk from it."
Oh, and I'm afraid you won't find much in Scripture on this, as God's position seems to be, "I made alcohol for you to enjoy, but don't get drunk from it."
