Sodomites and Baptists

rbell,

that's good to hear actually. And of course my circles run in the IFB crowds, where there certainly few if any that would accept it as well.

I do worry some when I come to boards where many different types of Baptists congregate though, and people with our viewpoint are ridiculed and called hateful by other Baptists. It doesn't happen much, though, and Im glad of that.

Originally posted by rbell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AVL1984:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rbell:
Righto, Rubato, we should head back to extra-biblical legalism regarding music and dress. That'll solve everything.

(Turns up his David Crowder Band "I Saw the Light" and "No One Like You")

Click to expand...

So, having standards and convictions is legalism? Don't think so, rbell. But, the lack of them could be called liberalism and a departure from that which is good and acceptable to use what was once held as sin as a tool to 'reach the lost'. Again, Don't think so. And, if you want to call it legalism, then I guess I'll have to once again wear the term legalist. </font>[/QUOTE]You misunderstood my point...if you'll re-read my replies you will note that (I used dress as an example) I do have standards. They are biblically informed. But I was replying to a post that intimated that by not having a strict, legalistic, convention-wide policy in the SBC, that we were heading straight into embracing the gay agenda. I simply objected to two things:
(1) It ain't the SBC's job to dictate dress and music standards.
(2) Don't lump all your pet concerns together and claim they are on equal biblical footing. The Bible does discuss the morality of dress. It does not discuss the morality of musical style.

Anyway back to the topic at hand: I can't think of a single SBC leader--even those on the periphery of SBC life--that embraces an acceptance of homosexuality. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, I don't misunderstand your point.

You say that the Bible doesn't address the topic of musical style. I have to disagree with you. Ephesians 5:19 and Co 3:16 are pretty clear. Psalms, hymns and "spritual songs"....are we not to try the spirits? In the OT you will find that certain types of music did indeed have an affect on different people, as they do today. Saul was a good example of this when David played for him.

When some of the long held standards and morals of the church start to go, then sooner or later they all will start to slip, as they have done over the last 50 years or so. This will eventually continue to lead on down to the accepting of all things, even homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle.

So according to your logic acceptance of CCM will lead to the acceptance of homosexuality. Does the same apply to dress standards? If I wear pants am I on a slippery slope to condoning homosexuality? NONSENSE!

Filmproducer,

he's looking at a longer time span than just one life. Actually it probably will NOT lead to YOUR accepting of homosexuality.....but, IN GENERAL, when a group's standards start to slip in several different areas, than yes, they are on a slipper slope to accepting ALL things. Probably not within the lifetime of the original group MEMBERS, but look beyond our time here. Look at what our kids and grandkids and greatgrandkids will be accepting. We are certainly more accepting of all sorts of things than our grandparents or greatgrandparents were.....and Im not talking about things we SHOULD be accepting of.....but things that we've gotten used to in our culture and have even brought into our churches as acceptable.

That's hilarious, AVL. Despite my "slipping," I'm still straight, and think homosexuality is wrong.

Great job on your scriptural eisegesis...I'd debate it here, but this is not the OP topic.

If this conversation goes CCM, they'll probably close this down...redirecting...

I repeat my assertion, especially for AVL: SBC is absolutely nowhere near embracing the gay agenda. Nowhere near.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
So according to your logic acceptance of CCM will lead to the acceptance of homosexuality. Does the same apply to dress standards? If I wear pants am I on a slippery slope to condoning homosexuality? NONSENSE!

Click to expand...

Don't twist my words or put words in my mouth fp. It's really not becoming of you. My logic is that the Bible lays out guidelines, and it is up to us as Christians to follow those guidelines or not. I nowhere stated that wearing pants would lead to condoning homosexuality, and YOU are the one who is being nonsensical. I never stated that listening to CCM will contribute to one's accepting of homosexuality, though, in CCM you will find that there are many homosexuals. There was an exposure of one or two last year or the year before if I recall correctly. To compel the use of CCM in churches and force those who hold traditional standards and principles shows a lack of character on the part of the pastors and leaders who force it. It shows a "let's grow with another type of music and atmosphere" mentality, and eventually, somewhere in generations down the line, it very well COULD BE (I didn't say WOULD BE) possible for them to accept "alternate lifestyles". In a way, those who listen to CCM may have already done it without even knowing it.

Originally posted by bapmom:
Filmproducer,

he's looking at a longer time span than just one life. Actually it probably will NOT lead to YOUR accepting of homosexuality.....but, IN GENERAL, when a group's standards start to slip in several different areas, than yes, they are on a slipper slope to accepting ALL things. Probably not within the lifetime of the original group MEMBERS, but look beyond our time here. Look at what our kids and grandkids and greatgrandkids will be accepting. We are certainly more accepting of all sorts of things than our grandparents or greatgrandparents were.....and Im not talking about things we SHOULD be accepting of.....but things that we've gotten used to in our culture and have even brought into our churches as acceptable.

Click to expand...

Thank you. that is pretty much what I'm saying.

Originally posted by rbell:
That's hilarious, AVL. Despite my "slipping," I'm still straight, and think homosexuality is wrong.

Great job on your scriptural eisegesis...I'd debate it here, but this is not the OP topic.

If this conversation goes CCM, they'll probably close this down...redirecting...

I repeat my assertion, especially for AVL: SBC is absolutely nowhere near embracing the gay agenda. Nowhere near.

Click to expand...

If that's so, seems like many of the church's here in the SBC have become a little lax, then, because some of them do indeed accept it. It doesn't take long before it creeps into the whole denomination. Yes, it will eventually lead to another split in the SBC, but that is for another thread.

AVL,

Name me three SBC (NOT CBF) churches that affirm the gay agenda.

He cannot, becaue if they do they will be given ye ol boot

J

Alright, alright! let's check back in in twenty years and see where everyone's been, OK?


Honestly, though, once a degenerative process has begun, it is interesting to watch where it eventually leads.

Don't some SBCers allow women preachers? Where do they plan to draw lines? Wherever there is not a faction in favor of compromise? Do women wear men's clothes (breeches, according to Leviticus are men's garments)? Do they expose nakedness (the thigh starts at the knee, according to my H.S. Biology book) Hmmm... very interesting.

However, all of this is a side point. This thread is not to debate SBC. There are other Baptists out there, ya know!

The only thing that bothers me...is that some folks seem to enjoy thinking that the SBC is in a moral freefall...shouldn't that bother folks, rather than excite them?

Rubato, I agree that SBC wasn't the original point. I interjected where I saw the SBC in the process, and people chimed in...many saying we were on the way to accepting the gay agenda (or already there). I had to respond to that untruth.

Rubato,

Glad your HS Biology book is inspired.

Originally posted by rbell:
Rubato,

Glad your HS Biology book is inspired.

Click to expand...

As is your favorite denomination...

ALL RIGHT! WHO SAID THAT?

These computers say the darndest things...

Originally posted by rbell:
AVL,

Name me three SBC (NOT CBF) churches that affirm the gay agenda.

Click to expand...

Considering you live in Alabama, I don't believe it is any concern of yours, now, is it? I'm not obligated to give you anything...so, you'll just have to do your own research, now, won't you?

Originally posted by J.R.Maddox:
He cannot, becaue if they do they will be given ye ol boot

J

Click to expand...

Again, there is a difference between "cannot" and will not. And, they won't necessarily be given "ye ol' boot", as you stated. The SBC national convention is very aware of these churches. The issue has been brought up by several delegates for the past few years.

Again, there is a difference between "cannot" and will not. And, they won't necessarily be given "ye ol' boot", as you stated. The SBC national convention is very aware of these churches. The issue has been brought up by several delegates for the past few years.

Click to expand...

Your knowledge and understanding of the SBC and it's polity is painfully lacking. First of all we do not have 'delegates'...we have messengers...big difference. If you don't know the difference then you should not comment. When you say something like that you loose your credibility to speak to the subject matter because you are obviously pulling your information out of the bottom desk drawer of opinion and not fact. If you want to know the difference between a messenger and a delegate then as you say..."You do the research'. There are not SBC church's that are openly supporting Homosexuality in friendly cooperation with the convention...there were some...they have been removed from the convention. Here in Texas we just removed from fellowship a church that was simply allowing their facilities to be used by a advocacy group for weekly meetings because they were deemed "Gay friendly" (The advocacy group, not the church) and by the way...GOOD FOR US! Any church that advocates either passively or aggressively that kind of mindset needs to be removed. Again, I agree with rbell...name 3 church's that are openly advocating homosexuality and I will show you 3 church's that will no longer be SBC in about 3 months. THEY WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONVENTION!

Maybe you should read the BFM 2000 and the resolutions that have come out of the SBC before you comment on what you do not know anything about.

Now, children just kidding (kind of).

[ April 17, 2006, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Rubato 1 ]

I hate to jump in like this, but since I started this thread...

"In 1984 the Southern Baptist Convention adopted a resolution saying the Bible 'excludes women from pastoral leadership.' Like many things adopted by this Convention, the resolution was almost meaningless. In a September 1993 meeting of the SBC Executive Committee, a measure to expel congregations for ordaining women was rejected unanimously. The Fall 1997 edition of Folio, the newsletter of Baptist Women in Ministry, reported that there are 1,225 ordained Southern Baptist women. Roughly 200 of the ordained women serve as pastors and associate pastors. In 1979 there were only 58 ordained Southern Baptist women, but the number has increased rapidly in the 1980s and 1990s, during the same period in which the 'conservatives' have dominated the national convention." http://www.daveandangel.com/CRN/WomenPreachers.html

Good trend, bad trend?

SBC is on a slippery slope, my freinds. The bad thing about slippery slopes is no one really knows where the bottom is. I personally would be suprised to see them embrace sodomy, but they allow women preachers after voting it un-biblical and there have been no expulsions, etc over that. WHY? Fear of-members, popularity, something? Hmm...

well rubato...you got us...I was trying to blow enough smoke to keep you off our hind feathers but you figured us out. That’s right...we Southern Baptists are runnen around just a ordaining every shecoon we can find...and as far as the gays...man we cant wait to start ordaining them....by the thousands we hope...that’s right...this so called 'conservative resurgence was just a bunch of smoke and mirrors...why it was all about politics, power and the need to control...and now that we so called conservatives are running the show, we ordain that CCM music be mandatory in all of our church's, that our ordained women preach, and that the homosexuals in our congregations (Because you know that’s where your every day Homosexual wants to go to church, your local SBC congregation) are teaching the jr. departments. We were kind of trying to keep all of this a secret, but you and ol AVL done figured us out! I am going to call Paige and Johnny aka as the Calvinist haters...and tell them just to put up the white flag, get out the rainbow flag, order a fabulous musical on their cable Pay per view(Cause you know them SBC boys just love their HBO), have a BBQ and invite the leaders of N.O.W. over and it will be a big party...

geeeeeezzzzzzz!

J