Lifeway Tract on Salvation--right or wrong?

Tom,
You joined in briefly in the thread at the end of March, "Is This Salvation?"
rjprince took the viewpoint that there is no requirement for salvation to "repent from sin"?
I said that repentance is part of salvation.

I take it that you consider repentance a component of salvation?

Karen

 

I don't see repentance as a work.However I don't think we can truly repent until we have some understanding of who God is and who Jesus Christ is.I don't think we understand the depths of our sin until we ask Christ into our heart,after we have done that then we can truly repent.If I am unsaved I am acting IAW my true nature and am not even truly aware that I have anything to repent of.

If one does not truly repent after salvation I would wonder about the salvation experience just as I would if the person did not have a change in character,if we did'nt see some evident works I would wonder.I know we don't do works to get saved but we work after we are saved to please God and in case anybody don't know it, it benefits us and our walk with The Lord Jesus christ.
My two cents.

 

Maybe. Are the words "expressed" and "takes the shape" theological terms? I'm trying to discern the difference and cannot at this stage.

In my own conversion, hardly paradigmatic, I was under conviction for at least a week. I sat on the second pew so nothing would hinder me from walking the aisle. (Hardly any aisle left by then!) I stepped out as soon as the music began, told the pastor "I want to be saved." He asked me a couple of questions to ascertain that I knew what was going on, ("Do you know who Jesus is, do you know why he died on the cross?") and he had me repeat a sinner's prayer after him phrase by phrase. Any method would have worked--I was ready to be saved.

God did not speak peace to my heart until that moment. Even then it wasn't dramatic, but the burden rolled off. I did not believe anything when I bowed my head that I had not believed for the entire week previously, but the Holy Spirit had revealed to me that I had stiff-armed God all of my little life (I was thirteen) and I was condemned; the only way I knew to surrender was to publicly walk the aisle.

It's hard, in my case, to distinguish the faith from the act. And that seems to be how most people are converted, though certainly not all.

 

Typical SBC, 1,2,3 pray after me. Should it surprise us when only one out of three SBC members attend church on any given Sunday.

 

Seems to me that Pipedude just shared a humble and genuine testimony of his salvation. IMO it is rude to then mock that testimony. Respect is in order, even if you disagree with the method used by the preacher in his salvation.

The use of a prayer in personal evangelism is quite old, and has been used by many groups, Arminian and Calvinist and everyone in between, not just the SBC. I can document this method being used by Presbyterian missionaries (and so, Calvinist) George Pierson and his wife early in the 20th century here on my island of Hokkaido, Japan.

 

The word "name" is accusative, so it is simply the direct object of the verb. The word "Lord" is possessive. The verb here is epikaleomai, the etymology of which is "to call on." It most often is used to describe the name of a person: "his name is called...." However, it can mean simply to call out to God, as it probably does here and in the parallel passage of Acts 2:21, where Peter quotes Joel 2:29 and applies it to salvation from sin.

Here is an interesting parallel. Check out Gen. 4:26, "And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD." The phrase in this case can mean, "to call themselves by the name of the Lord." So with that as a basis it is possible to interpret Rom. 10:13 as meaning someone who decides to align themselves with the Lord as one of His own!

Now concerning the problem at hand, note that in Rom. 10:14 it clearly distinguishes between believing and calling. So the calling and believing are not synonyms. In the logical progression of the passage, one calls on the One he has already believed in. So Romans 10:13 is not teaching salvation by means of prayer.

 

In fact, it was a SBC.

If someone like that walks an aisle, what should a pastor do instead of the 1-2-3 routine?

 

He should immediately get you enrolled in a reformed seminary and see that you stay until you have earned a ThD at which time you may call upon the Lord for salvation.

 

How about adding "of your sins" to repentance, as well, for something added to the tract? What is the problem with a 'salvation' as offered in John 3:16-18; John 3:36; John 6:47; I John 5:10-13; Gen. 15:6; etc. Over 400 times, the NT speaks of the noun, faith and/or the verb, believe, both of which are the same root word. John uses the word believe 99 times in his gospel, alone. This also happens to be the only book written specifically and explicitly for the purpose of getting people saved.

John uses these words, as well another dozen or so times in his first Epistle, the only book said to be written specifically for the two-fold assurance, perhaps with the additional effect of a cotinuing to believe after believing.

Although in fairness, there is some small question as to the last phrase here in verse 13, that to me, nevertheless, is only "added gravy". Paul wrote, in Romans 1:16-17, these words;

That should settle the issue, IMO. The false additions of various schemata to rephrase the words of Scripture regarding salvation and that being a gift, are nothing less, to me, than adding to the Word of God, as spoken of in Revelation 22. I am utterly astounded at those who are so concerned about "taking away" from Scripture, especially as to some who support a particular version or versions, who blithely add to without reservation, albeit unwittingly, perhaps, for some, and others who are so concerned with one who would "add to", but have no problem with "taking away", doing that, at the same time. Whether as to "text", or "teaching", in this regard, what is the difference?

In summary, Yes! Adding "praying" to this is no less an error, than some other things could be. The Late Lewis Sperry Chafer once wrote words to the effect of, (and I'm attempting to cite from memory, here) "The word 'believe' represents all a sinner can and must do , to be saved."

Get that? It is not, "All you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ, to be saved; rather, it is All you CAN do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!" That, and that alone is what saves. Why muddy the waters?
In His grace,
Ed

 

We ALWAYS go to a counseling room in order to clarify the gospel. We share with our folks the decision to inquire about salvation and to be in prayer. Their baptism is their profession of faith. Of course if we have dealt with them in the home already we share their decision and then they are later baptized for a ppof.

J

 

Show just one verse in the Bible where Jesus taught his disciples that type of evangelism.

 

When someone tell sme they want to be saved or be a Christian I ask them, "Why?" When I get a favorable answer indicating they understand in a simple way then I tell them of the cost of following Jesus and what lies ahead for them.

That kind of pressure nonsense is nothing more than an effort to pressure people to make a decision. Just simply tell them what Jesus told his disciples.

God will not be mocked by our ways to imitate him. His ways are not our ways. His ways are so much higher than our's. God is God. He is not our servant we are His servants.

When God's people begin to pray they will see God hand unlike they have ever seen before. They won't need Nashville's holy spirit but God's Holy Spirit will do things one could not even imagine.

So much of religion is man's doing but when God does it is like a freight train that will not stop.

When one understands in the NT what it meant to follow Jesus that meant he could have lost his life or his business taken away or boycotted.

Following Christ was an open confession naming Christ as Lord. By naming Christ as Lord it meant that the emperor was no longer lord but Jesus. For that the emperor could have a believer executed. That is following Christ.

It is not a prayer which saves. It is Christ who saves. Salvation is not in a prayer but in a person--Christ.

 

Show just one verse in the Bible where Jesus taught his disciples that type of evangelism. </font>[/QUOTE]Um, think about that for a minute. Don't you believe that any request of any kind to Jesus while He was on the earth was a prayer? I do. So for just one example, the thief on the cross prayed to Jesus at the time of his salvation saying, "Remember me."

 

Anything which makes salvation seem simple without the need for changing your life and living for Christ is harmful. It seems to be popular today to minimize the requirement for decipleship. That statement could be included in a sentence or two. It doesn't require complicated theology or exigesis.

 

Good grief. Suddenly, everyone is an authority. And built into their authoritarian responses (see posts by gb93433) are presumptions, assumptions, railings ... it's enough to make one pray.

If I tell "youse guys" that we've had a turtle in our backyard for 11 years, and what we feed it, I'd receive 30 posts telling me what we're doing wrong.

Check out the gentle approaches and scriptural responses of John of Japan. That's where it's at.

 

here is another perspective, one that seems worthy of consideration.... it is another "tract" albeit a longer one, and it's purpose is to debunk much of the evangelizing "techniques" of today's churches and their "altar calls" and for the "getting of a decision for Christ"... an excerpt from the tract says:

check out the rest of the tract at http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=509

what say ye?

blessings,
Ken

 

A prayer is an imperative of entreaty. A whole lot different than a 1,2,3 pray after me and you are in heaven nonsense.

Some have actually prayed the prayer many times. Did they get saved many times too.

Jesus never prayed to his disciples when he told them, "Come follow me."

When people came to Jesus requesting what they needed to do to be saved, when did he ever tell them to pray a prayer?