Student: Seniors united to acknowledge God at graduation

I am not sure what to think of this, frankly. Imposing a prayer on people who don't want to hear it in a non-Christian setting is not my idea of being Christlike. How does saying this prayer in a defiant manner show Christ to non-Christians?

Statistics show that most high school students in youth groups leave the church when they get to college. Maybe doing this together as a group for this graduation was easy but I wonder what will happen when they are surrounded by non-Christians in a university.

 

Marcia,

the thing is that according to the article the Senior class had decided to have the Lord's Prayer at some point during the ceremony. In many areas our country operates on the majority vote wins. The majority wanted the prayer. The majority of the community wanted the prayer as well. Is it then fair that one dissenting voice got to outweigh all the others?

One problem we have right now is that people have the idea that they have the right to not be offended. We do not have any such right. We have the right to say something, and speak out. But if the rest around us don't agree we very well may not get our way.

Im sure that being surrounded by non-CHristians in a university will have little to no impact on at least the young lady who stood up and gave the speech. She wasn't the one who claimed an offense. Nor did the others who went ahead and said the prayer.

The one who disagreed is the one who was so afraid of any view that disagreed with his own that he had to get a court order to try to suppress the expression of that opposing viewpoint. It was this boy who will not do well in a university setting unless that boy only surrounds himself with people who believe exactly as he does. Unfortunately, in today's universities this will most likely not be hard for him to do.

 

Bapmom, I see the points you are making. But is what we think is fair always the best thing in a case like this? What did this prove? Who did it help?

In fact, the students disobeyed an order from a judge which I think can be argued to go against Rom. 13. Even if that is not the case, this seems more like an act of pride than anything. Saying the Lord's Prayer looks like an act of defiance -- shouldn't we reserve such things for worship?

I see no benefits from this except that the students got satisfaction from defying a judge's order.

 

I understand your point too, Marcia, but I think the difference is that the judge ordered that it could not be a part of the official ceremony. The students and audience has the freedom to do what they want in regards to this as long as it is not an official part of the ceremony. The order said the girl was not allowed to lead in the Prayer. But what happened was a voluntary recitation, not part of the ceremony, and not led by the speaker.

A judge cannot make an order that says we can't voluntarily decide to pray out loud if we feel like it as a group.

 

Marcia, the students did NOT violate the judicial order. The article says: "U.S. District Judge Joseph McKinney ordered Chapman and school officials not to proceed with a scheduled prayer in the ceremony."

The school obeyed what the judge said. There was NOT a scheduled prayer, but there WAS a spontaneous one! That does not violate the judicial order.

Perhaps you think it would be better for the 199 who desired to pray to counter-sue the one who did not? That could REALLY get some talk going! I personally believe that prayer should be ALLOWED (not SPONSORED) at a graduation, if there are those graduating who wish to pray. This does not mean everyone is required to participate in prayer, but only that those who wish to do so, can.

Cheers for the kids who prayed, and also for the one who challenged "school-sponsored" prayer.

Bill

 

They did violate the spirit of the order, even if not the letter of it. But putting that aside, the more important issue to me is what good did this do? This is exactly the kind of thing that turned me away from Christianity (before I was a believer). It just seems smug to me. I don't see how this is Christlike.

 

Marcia,

I mean no disrespect towards you, but sometimes those who want to be offended will be offended no matter what we do.....when we as Christians actually do something I mean. If as Christians we sit back and do nothing than most likely the world will not be offended by our actions. But as soon as we DO something they will find something to be upset about in it. We can't always let their offense dictate our actions. Otherwise we will be letting the world and their objections dictate how we act.

The thing is that they do not apply these same standards to themselves. What about all the people who were offended by a court order dictating the exclusion of prayer in their own graduation ceremony? In this particular case there were more on that side than on the other side.

I guess what Im trying to say is that I don't see their action as unChrist-like at all.

ps. Im very glad that God overcame your objections and He won you over.

 

The young man might also think that what those
"fanatics" have in their lives just might be real since they are willing to go against authority to give glory to a "Higher Authority".

This kid had even been to youth events at area churches. No doubt the Spirit of God is already at work in his heart.
BTW Marcia, the reason we have one little
Muslim dude in another county in Kentucky being able to stop a decades long tradition of a "God" centered benediction etc.. is for the very attitude and idea you expressed.
Actually I believe your playing devil's adovocate more than anything. Your thoughts on this particular post are kind of out of step with your other posts on other topics.

 

In cases like this, you frequently hear from 'church/state separationist' that if students want a ceremony that includes prayers and devotionals, their community may organize voluntary baccalaureate ceremonies as long as they are not sponsored by the public schools [and usually, if school officials take part they must disclaim any district authority for doing so].

So, especially in the case of small one-highschool towns with a high percentage of churchgoing Christians, perhaps graduates can just skip the 'regular' graduation and get their diplomas to the miniterial alliance, or whatever body 'runs' the baccalaureate service, and accept their diplomas there with the desired agenda. At least see if that's how the small nonChristian minority really wants it, as opposed to the nasty imposition of a few words of praise at a time praise is very much in order for most.

 

Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

 

Would you like it if a large group of Islamic students started chanting and praying to Allah during your child's graduation?

 

MP,

I might not particularly like it, but I would not hold them in any disrespect for it, nor would I see it as something I should get a court order to stop.
If I were in a Muslim country, and/or a place that was largely Muslim, I would actually expect it. Legally speaking I also agree with their right to do so.

 

It gloryfied God!And that takes priority every tiime.

 

Well, I'm not really playing "devil's advocate" and I don't think that this is out of step with my other posts on the BB. I knew I would get the responses that came - I'm not surprised. I've never been one to impose Christian prayers on others. I pray in restaurants because I'm at a private table. But I don't stand up in front of the restaurant and demand a right to say a prayer for everyone.

I still do not see the point of doing this at a public school graduation. I think that if we keep defending and pushing things like this, we are going to start having to hear prayers to Allah, to the Goddess, to the Mormon God, or whatever, at future schools functions or graduations.

There are many communities in the US where Christianity is not the majority. For example, where I live (Arlington Co., VA), it's 95% non-church goers. Only 5% of the people here even attend a church, and that includes Catholic churches. It may also include Mormons (Mormons are very heavily represented here). It's very secular here. The number of Muslims and other religions (esp. if you include Mormons) probably surpasses the number of even nominal Christians, much less the number of born-again believers.

I see Christians get all heated up over something like this, but then they enjoy the Da Vinci Code, which is pure attack on the deity of Christ, on the church, and on the Bible, even suggesting things that I cannot post here. So how do you explain that?

 

Matthew 6

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 

MP the key to understanding this verse is to understand that Jesus is concerned not with praying in public but the reason for it.

He is concerned for the motive of the heart. The Pharisees loved to appear in public as superspiritual so that they would be praised and reverenced.

This verse is not a mandate against public prayer.

 

Looks like you have done a bit of spin on the plain text there, Rev!

 

Really! How big is your closet? Does it have a door? Is it a closte used only for prayer or do you have clothes or linens in it also?

Just wondering.

 

Comments? Especially the last paragraph.