OKC BOMBING DESCREPANCIES

Phillip: //Sorry, Ed, you posted while I did. Aaron has been asking real questions and wanting real answers. We've been looking at those.//

Yes, I understand. It is easy to discriminate between
those with legitimate questions wanting real answers
and conspiracy/gossip mongerers.
I'm sure glad you have patience enough to give the
real answers.

Ms Davis is a professional OKC Conspiracy theorist.
This is NOT a good reccomendation for anything she
says

Consider this link given above:

http://independence.net/okc/congressbombreport.htm

Benton K. Partin retired from what is now the
Logistics Command USAF in 1978.
From 1978 to 1995 he was NOT privy to national
secrets. I also think he may have forgetten
more than I know about bombs???
In 1976 I started workign with what is not the
Logistics Cammand USAF. I'm going to retire soon.
This gentleman was was a bomb buyer 30 years ago.
I wouldn't give you a nickle for my knowledge of
anything 30 years ago

Sorry folks, but Bro. Phillip knows more about this subject
than does the 'experts' being brought forth by the conspiracy
theory folks.

Does anybody care how much pain they are causing us survivors
of the OKC Holocaust by beating open our wounds?

 

Bro. Ed,
Do you remember the little girl singing a song called "Not Too Far From Here" right after the bombing? ABC News even flew her to NYC and had her singing on Good Morning America, then Channel 5 showed it several times.

A couple months ago, on a Sunday Morning
one of our church members sang that song and when she got to the second phrase of the first verse, I felt like I'd just gotten hit in the chest by a load of bricks. Was all I could do not to sob louder than Hillary was singing.

 

Brother Ed, were you or a relative in the building at the time of the bombing?

 

No.
Do you have friends that are dead?
Do you have friends that are survivors of
the OKC bombing whose life was ruined by
'survivor guilt'?
Do you have people you interacted with who
died in the OKC massacre?
I have all of these.
But I don't have a relative in any of
the TEN BUILDINGS destroyed in downtown
OKC on 19 April 1995. I also was like
11 miles away from the center of the explosion.
I do not make a living from spreading rumors
and gossip about the OKC bombing.

 

I am sorry for your loss, Ed. I don't make a living from spreading rumors and gossip about the OKC bombing, either, and I don't know anyone on here who does. Most of us are just interested in the truth about it, which we will probably never know in this life. It is a tragedy as was 09/11 and Americans are probably in for more.

 

LadyEagle: //I don't make a living from spreading rumors and gossip about the OKC bombing, either, and I don't know anyone on here who does.//

I didn't figure you did.
I didn't figure they did either.
Rumor mongering and gossip are sins.
When we spread the rumors and gossip of the
Conspiracy theory folk, we are aiding and
abbeting terrorism.

IMHO such rumor mongering and gossip should
be banished from this Baptist Board (BB) especially
with regards to hurtful assistance to terrorism.
Needless to say, if that happens, then you, Sister
LadyEagle, will be enforcing such a rule.
(though surely that isn't your only option).

 

Brother Ed, I disagree. Terrorists don't need any abiding and abbeting terrorism. They have enough of their own jihad web sites which operate on US servers from US hosting companies that have never been shut down. They also have infiltrated all of our cities and college campuses and Capitol Hill with political action committees and live among us in our communities and neighborhoods. They also have plenty of their own Internet forums and they post their jihad ideas from all over the US. And they hold "rallies" which promote the idea of taking over our country.

There is quite a difference between trying to sort through information to try to get at the truth of the horrible acts of terrorism committed against us, what we have been told by our government, and those whose objective is to take over this nation by the sword.

This board is not turning into a "conspiracy board" by having a few threads about conspiracy theories. There is a massive conspiracy theory, though, that has been going on since the Garden of Eden throughout history. Jesus Himself said to beware of "wolves in sheep's clothing." Jesus gave many warnings about how even the "elect" would be deceived at the End Times. The NT warns us about "spiritual wickedness in high places." Perhaps you believe the US government is exempt from any "spiritual wickedness." I don't.

 

Ed, if you don't mind my saying so, your emotional attachment to the event makes you the least qualified to say what is conspiracy or not. I want a dispassionate view of the situation.

 

First, I have not read the entire thread. I have just looked at the OP, so if this has been said, I apologize.

1. The TOW missile container does not surprise me. Things like that are quite common in the Marine Corps. Something gets used, and one of the Marines decides that it would make a good storage container. I have been out for several years now and still have things shoved into ammo cans around the house. I would guess the TOW missile box fits into that mold. One of the Marine Recruiters or a former military person employed in the building had picked it up at one time or another. I have never heard that there was a "practice" missile in the container. (Another note, plenty of practice TOW's are not inert. The missile works, with no war head. This would also explain a live marking on the box, just not why it was there.) If there was, I would assume it was there to show to the potential recruits, especially since there is a reserve TOW missile company in Oklahoma.

As for the rest, we will never have an answer. The conspiracy people will always believe the government lied to them, and people like me will always believe that thinking like that is nuts. However, none of us will ever be able to prove the other wrong.

I can say that my mother was an Edmond police officer at the time and was at the scene less than 20 minutes after the explosion. She believes that the reports of additional bombs being in the building are false. However, she seems to recall reports that there was another truck bomb that people later ignored. Could be because there wasn't, could be a cover up. The fact that your brother is a Treasury Agent (or was) may shed some light on the situation. However, unless he was one of the ATF agents in the office he cannot say for sure that they did not have practive devices. I do not believe they did, but once again... we will never know.

Finally, the John Doe #2 story is hard to understand. I do not believe that either side is fully correct. Something is wrong with the story, but putting McVeigh and an arab terrorist together is a stretch. The man's personal views on the world seem to imply that he would not be working with such a person.

 

And yet, nearly everyone can be bought at the right price.

 

Lady Eagle, you may be correct. However, for that claim to make sense one would have to assume that McVeigh was bought. From the research I have done, and what I know from living in the area, it is quite clear to me that this was McVeigh's doing. If there was "buying" going on, McVeigh was making the purchase.

 

Phillip: //Strangely, nobody has a MOAB sitting on their desk. [Wink]//

uh, er, wouldn't 20 tons of TNT
like kinda like FLATTEN a desk

 

Phillip, I was not aware that the TOW missile was in the ATF section of the building. I had just heard about the missile and wasn't sure if it was there, or in the Marine recruiter's office. Thanks for clearing that up.

I just wish that, if we have to talk about conspriacy stuff in Oklahoma, we woulod focus on the bombing outside the OU game last season. That is one time that I am pretty sure the whole story is being hidden somewhere. I guess it could just be that I was at the game and didn't like the way things were handled though.

 

Sorry, I'm not too good at reading between the lines. I am good at addition and subtraction, though. Don't expect any sensitive security info to be discussed on the Internet, however, and do understand when people are loyal to the people who sign their paychecks. No problem here.

 

Loose lips sink ships.

 

LandEagle: //Brother Ed, I disagree.//

Thank you. I find way to many milk toast posters here
who don't even have 'disagree' in their vocabulary.
That makes anyone, like you, who will take a stand,
stand out.

LadyEagle: //Terrorists don't need any abiding
and abbeting terrorism.//

Amen. Then let us NOT give them any.

LadyEagle: //They have enough of their own jihad
web sites which operate on US servers from US hosting companie
that have never been shut down. They also have infiltrated
all of our cities and college campuses and Capitol Hill
with political action committees and live among us in our communities
and neighborhoods. They also have plenty of their
own Internet forums and they post their jihad ideas
from all over the US.//


Your description, while true, has NOTHING TO DO with the OKC Bomber.
They were domestic Chrisian terrorists.
No, 'John Doe' was NOT Middle Eastern, he was probably a
misidentified Native American.

LadyEagle: //There is a massive
conspiracy theory, though, that has been going on since
the Garden of Eden throughout history. //

Yes, I read my first conspiracy theory book in 1964. What were
you doing in 1964? Also, there are several. Are you familair
with the one that says we humans are a food source for aliens?


Aaron: //Ed, if you don't mind my saying so, your emotional attachment
to the event makes you the least qualified to say what
is conspiracy or not. I want a dispassionate view of the situation.//

I agree fully, Brother Aaron.
I want a dispassionate view of the situation.
That is why I stay away from the conspiracy sites that
feed on each other for support and 'logic'.
I've even been kicked off a few boards because the
conspiracy sites are EVIL. The Holy Spirit testifies to me
of the EVIL, SINFUL nature of many of these conspiracy sites.
They are always black or white, never admiting that there might
(even if by accident) be something we in the government of the US
did right.

BTW, I hardly think that I'm 'not allowed' to have opinions
just because I was THERE.


JamesBell: //Finally, the John Doe #2 story is hard to understand.
I do not believe that either side is fully correct.
Something is wrong with the story, but putting McVeigh
and an arab terrorist together is a stretch.//

Strange how a human error makes a Native American an Arab.
The sketch of John Doe #2 was made from a description by
the man who rented McVeigh the Ryder Truck. The FBI found
the man, and found he was in the rental office the same day
but nobody could prove (and the FBI probably tryed to)
any connection with McVeigh or any other of the OKC Bombing
'team'. The man was a Native American (AKA: American Indian)
well at least halfway. John Doe #2 was not an Arab Terrorist.
The man was not an agent of any USGovernment agency: known
or clandistine. Anyway, that is easier to belive that a
man working in a vehicle rental office would oops instead
of some terrorist group of supermen could dupe multiple agencies
of the USGovernment.


I had a friend who worked in the Murrah building. He was off
the week of April 19, 1995. He survived. Many of his friends
did not. He had to go to work outside OKC. His life was ruined
with surviver's guilt. Finally he quit the USGovernment service.
He was unable to operate as a father; unable to be a father to
his pre-school child; unable to watchdog the other parts of
the USGovernment. The cost of domestic terrorism is VERY HIGH.

I had an acquaintance who worked for the Governement. He
interviewd me for a security clearance before the OKC Bombing.
He died in the explosion. This was just after the homosexual
standard: 'don't ask, don't tell'. So he said something like
"I can't ask you the following question anymore ..."
but I interuppted: "Don't worry, I'm straight".
He died in the OKC Bombing. The cost of domestic terrorism is VERY HIGH.

By contrast, Conspiracy theories levied against the USGovernment
are CHEAP.

Phillip: //Speaking of displays, I really like Tinker's in OKC.
It is quite amazing. LOTS of history there.//

Yes. I like the Gen Tinker hall. Major General (2 star) Tinker
was an Oklahoman. He died in 1942 after the taking of Midway.
After midway was taken Gen Tinker was the commander of the
Army Air Forces on Midway. He went over to look at Wake which
was still held by Japan. He never came back (what ever became
of the General staying home and waiting for reports?).
Gen Tinker was the highest ranking Native American at the
time of his death, in fact, he was the only Native American
with O-6 (Army Col., Navy Captian) or higher. So when they
build the Air Air Corps Depot in Oklahoma City, in 1943,
it was named in honor of Two Star Chief* Clarence Tinker.

* Code talkers from a dozen or more Indian tribes helped the
Army in WW2. The called a Col. 'Eagle chief' a general 'star chief',
etc.

JamesBell: //I just wish that, if we have to talk about conspriacy
stuff in Oklahoma, we woulod focus on the bombing outsid
the OU game last season. That is one time that I am pretty
sure the whole story is being hidden somewhere.
I guess it could just be that I was at the game and didn't
like the way things were handled though.//

I like how it turned out. The krazy kid wanted to blow you up.
The krazy kid couldn't get close enough (due to Homeland
Defense security).
The krazy kid blew himself up instead of you.
(BTW, I was under 2 miles away).

However, had the kid succedded, millions would blame
Bush for ordering it done, after about four years.
Four years is the gestation period of event driven
Conspiracy Theories.

BTW, the Flight 93 tape at the Moussaoui was hear Wednesday.
THe OKLAHOMAN says "... 13 of the terrified passenges and
crew members made 35 air phone calls and two cell phone
calls ... "
(however, I know later that had they been flying near
Montreal, Canada, they wouldn't have been able to make
the two cell phone calls.)