Featured The Way of the Master moment episode use the Law

Yes, Rev. I'll be glad to.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ.

Basically I disagree that the final judgment is not based on Christ but on the Ten Commandments - and this is a specific point Comfort makes.

 

“at face value, it seems Jesus is saying that the world will be judged for their sin “because they do not believe in Me.’ This would mean that sin is “a failure to believe in Jesus.’ Let’s say you are a missionary in the heart of Africa….” (pg. 68) He goes on to explain that those in Africa are like those in Athens. They are not guilty for rejecting Christ but because they are under the Law, they have transgressed the Ten Commandments (e.g., the idol worship of Athens).

My argument is that sins are manifestations of our sinfulness. It is our sinfulness that is the issue. The world is already condemned for rejecting the light. I believe that through Jesus God was reconciling the world to himself. Christ is central not only to our salvation but also to the condemnation of the lost (they are condemned for rejecting the Light, their sins remain as manifestations of this condemnation and their sinfulness). I believe that Ray Comfort is right in emphasizing sin in evangelism, but I believe he is wrong in excluding Christ.

Rev, again, I really don't care about this issue (of the book). All books are subject to error, but I find this one to take scripture a bit too out of context. We compare the book to Scripture and it comes up short. Another example is "Wild at Heart" by Jonathan Eldridge. I agree with what he says, but how he gets there is just short of open theism. That's why I cannot recommend the book.

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying. We disagree. We need far more than forgiveness, we need rebirth. God not only cleanses us, but he also gives us s new heart and spirit, puts his spirit in us. We must be reborn, regenerated and made anew.

So where you view the problem to be acts of rebellion, I believe it to be our rebellion itself. IMHO, it is absolutely incorrect that the problem is our actions. The problem, Rev, is us.

 

Ezekiel 36 - I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

John 3 - Truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You have half of the gospel, Rev. I think if you can incorporate a new birth in to your equation you will be right there with Nicodemus listening to the words of our Lord and Savior.

 

I know you were trying, brother. I was just showing you that our need for forgiveness was only a part of the problem (hence the scripture I provided). I was not meaning to question your integrity, only your conclusions.

Jesus did not come only to forgive our sins. He came so that we could have a newness of life. He died not only to atone for our sins and for us to avoid wrath. He came to reconcile us to himself. It is not about action, it is about humanity. Our sins are manifestations of our Sin.

 

Probably. I am from South Carolina, grew up in Atlanta and Tennessee.....so I type with a strong southern accent.

 

I don't know if he excludes Christ from soul-winning or not. I have only read this one book a couple of times and have not seen that he does. He does exclude the idea that the world is condemned for rejecting the Light (the Light being Christ) as he actually tells us this is a mistaken view in the book. The light he is speaking of is the light of the Law that shines in our darkened souls to convict us of sin. Jesus comes later. Personally, I think that he vaguely hints at truth but is so confused about the nature of the Law that he slides towards heresy. Jesus is the Light, and coming into the world Jesus enlightens every man.

Anyway....whatever.....I don't really care if you advocate "What would Jesus Do" or if you disagree with its error. If it helps you reach the lost then praise God people are being reached. Go get 'em Rev. And may the force be with you.

 

Yea....it was my southern accent thing....sorry. I was referring to the quote from his book. He stated that we need to convict under the Law, not build relationships, because relationship detracts and we could end up making the most common type of covert....a false one (Most will say Lord, Lord....).

 

Oh, I don't think one method is more correct than another either. But I do disagree that apart from using the Law we end up with what Jesus says most of us are - false converts.

But again, I was only offering why I would not recommend the book. You do as you please, brother. The book is linked a few posts back. Put on your "discerning" hat and test your ground.

 

If I can find it I will when I get home. But both are on the old thread.

In the mean time here are some good observations

http://thecripplegate.com/concerns-with-the-way-of-the-master/